My acros are acting like they are starved, but....

[homer1475]

I'm agreeing with @Lasse on this one, you need more PO4. The lack of having to clean the glass, and lack of any algae in the tank leads me to believe the PO4 level isn't as high as the salifert kit is telling you.

Just for comparison, my po4 is stable at .03, and I have to clean my glass every couple days. If i let it go for 4 days, I can make algae roll ups for my fish.

 

[Sallstrom]

As for algae on the windows, it can vary and doesn't necessary follow the nutrients in a tank. Trust me, I've been cleaning windows for more than ten years at public aquariums So I wouldn't take that as a sign of high or low nutrients.

What I reacted on was the burnt tips. Otherwise it could just be Acropora eating flatworms(have you checked?). But you don't get burnt tips from that. IME burnt tips are from things like: low nutrients and raise of KH, big swings in KH and/or PO4.

But sure, since you don't have another test to compare with, it's hard to say if you have a high or low PO4 problem. It was a long time ago I used Salifert for PO4, so I can't say much about that test. It was okey at most. I could see if it was low or higher than low PO4. When I could see blue colour on it I though it was too much. But that was back when most Acropora keepers aimed for really low phosphate

Nowadays a bit higher phosphate is the trend. But that doesn't mean every type of Acropora do well in phosphate above 0,1ppm. Some do, some don't, IME. And it's also adaption. They might adapt to a tank over time.

So when adding phosphate as a test, do it in low doses. If it's a lack of phosphate in the tank, you just need to get some in there, not get it up to 0,1ppm(I mean, if your PO4 is already high I don't thing things will get better if you add another 0,1ppm PO4 ).
There are more ways to raise the nutrients. You could remove the skimmer cup(if you have a in-sump skimmer) as a test too.

A picture would be great!

 

[Sallstrom]

I reread the first post. From what I've seen on lack of phosphate in reef tanks, the common red Montipora forming flat plates are usually affected before Acropora species. They get pale and fade looking.
So if they look fine in your tank I lean towards high phosphate.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

As for algae on the windows, it can vary and doesn't necessary follow the nutrients in a tank. Trust me, I've been cleaning windows for more than ten years at public aquariums So I wouldn't take that as a sign of high or low nutrients.

What I reacted on was the burnt tips. Otherwise it could just be Acropora eating flatworms(have you checked?). But you don't get burnt tips from that. IME burnt tips are from things like: low nutrients and raise of KH, big swings in KH and/or PO4.

But sure, since you don't have another test to compare with, it's hard to say if you have a high or low PO4 problem. It was a long time ago I used Salifert for PO4, so I can't say much about that test. It was okey at most. I could see if it was low or higher than low PO4. When I could see blue colour on it I though it was too much. But that was back when most Acropora keepers aimed for really low phosphate

Nowadays a bit higher phosphate is the trend. But that doesn't mean every type of Acropora do well in phosphate above 0,1ppm. Some do, some don't, IME. And it's also adaption. They might adapt to a tank over time.

So when adding phosphate as a test, do it in low doses. If it's a lack of phosphate in the tank, you just need to get some in there, not get it up to 0,1ppm(I mean, if your PO4 is already high I don't thing things will get better if you add another 0,1ppm PO4 ).
There are more ways to raise the nutrients. You could remove the skimmer cup(if you have a in-sump skimmer) as a test too.

A picture would be great!

The Garf was one of my greatest success stories. It's been doing so well.
The little green acro has already been trimmed to remove dead tips.

9

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

I reread the first post. From what I've seen on lack of phosphate in reef tanks, the common red Montipora forming flat plates are usually affected before Acropora species. They get pale and fade looking.
So if they look fine in your tank I lean towards high phosphate.

I have both a red and green plating monti and both are considerably paler than they used to be. The green one looks like it is starting to bleach in places.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I have never seen the salifert kit read po4 when it is actually not in the tank. Normally it will read zero when you actually have a decent amount of po4. Just my experience.

 

[Sallstrom]

Good. Thanks.

Then lack of phosphate might be one reason. Could the other be high KH or a quick raise of KH? I'm still thinking the burnt tips came for some reason other than just low phospate.

Hard to say, but it can be bite marks from Acropora eating flatworms on the Acropora valida colony(Garf). That usually makes the coral look a bit pale and faded too.

 

[Sallstrom]

I have never seen the salifert kit read po4 when it is actually not in the tank. Normally it will read zero when you actually have a decent amount of po4. Just my experience.

Yepp, same experience here. I always aimed for no colour at all back when I used it.

Strange..

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

I have never seen the salifert kit read po4 when it is actually not in the tank. Normally it will read zero when you actually have a decent amount of po4. Just my experience.

Yeah, I really do need to get a Hanna. Unfortunately circumstances prevent that at the moment.
The only reason that I question the reading is the totally sterile display I seem to have at the moment.
I've got a ton of coraline algae growing to annoying levels and precious little else.

 

[Sallstrom]

Perhaps a dumb question, but isn't 25ppm nitrate a bit high? I'm not that experienced with reef tanks with that levels of nitrate. I've taken care of one for a couple of years with numbers like that, but in that system it was hard to get many Acropora to grow at all. Some did fine. Montiporas did not.

But again, maybe a lot of reefers run with that numbers and the corals do fine. I'll be quiet if it is so

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Perhaps a dumb question, but isn't 25ppm nitrate a bit high? I'm not that experienced with reef tanks with that levels of nitrate. I've taken care of one for a couple of years with numbers like that, but in that system it was hard to get many Acropora to grow at all. Some did fine. Montiporas did not.

But again, maybe a lot of reefers run with that numbers and the corals do fine. I'll be quiet if it is so

I really don't know why my nutrient levels are so high. Not long ago I could feed 4 cubes a day and still hardly register a reading. Now I am down to one cube a day.
The only thing I'm doing different is feeding a small strip of seaweed every other day that my baby yellow tang and small coral beauty like to eat.
I do notice that my skimmer stops producing any foam when I feed that.

 

[Sallstrom]

I really don't know why my nutrient levels are so high. Not long ago I could feed 4 cubes a day and still hardly register a reading. Now I am down to one cube a day.
The only thing I'm doing different is feeding a small strip of seaweed every other day that my baby yellow tang and small coral beauty like to eat.
I do notice that my skimmer stops producing any foam when I feed that.

That's the same way our new reef systems have acted too. All three of them just ate all nutrients we put in the first period of time. I was amazed over the doses of NO3 and PO4 we had to add to keep levels detectable at all. Then the nutrients started to raise more by themself. It's like you need to fill something up to a certain point, and then it's full.
I can't explain it, but it happens

 

[Lasse]

Last using day for the salifert test?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[TexasTodd]

Well, Lasse and others here definitely know more than I do. But, whenever I've had tips burnt or look like that, it has been alk, light, or fish. When did you start transitioning to the whiter light setting compared to these issues?

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Last using day for the salifert test?

Sincerely Lasse

December 2021.
I do believe that it working as intended. The salifert phosphate kit isn't the best, but I trust there nitrate kit and that is showing higher than normal levels.
The thing I really don't understand is that even when I was getting readings of 0 phosphates and <5 nitrates I always had some green algae growing somewhere.
My display is pristine at the moment, and if it wasn't for my sps suffering I would be very happy indeed.

 

[madweazl]

Do you have a LFS that has a Hanna ULR available to double check it for you (many do, give some a call)?

Sallstrom touched on the subject of AEFW and you do have some indications that is a possibility but it's hard to tell due to the poor picture quality.

For what it's worth, I've never had a singular issue cause problems with my acroporas, it was always combination of two or more factors that has lead to their demise. In this case, you may or may not have a nutrient issue (I typically only run enough nitrates to be measurable and the same for phosphates). You may or may not have an issue with AEFW. And you may or may not have an negative response the change in lighting you made. Three things in concert that may have led to poor results.

We know the lighting was changed. Now get a sanity check on the phosphates and try to capture a high quality image of the area circled to isolate those as possibilities.

 

[Lasse]

He started the same time - what I understand - but it is not as easy as that - Alk, light and nutrients are coworkers in this equation. The absolute numbers of a single parameter are not necessarily the reason as they work together.

An other question - we have all concentrate on a deficiency problem but it may be the opposite. I know one compound that can cause algae free windows. How do your shrimps, hermits and snails do?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Well, Lasse and others here definitely know more than I do. But, whenever I've had tips burnt or look like that, it has been alk, light, or fish. When did you start transitioning to the whiter light setting compared to these issues?

A couple of weeks ago, I have the white reduced on acclamation mode at the moment for another month. The issues started weeks before that. Probably not the best time to change my light setting.
I can't believe it's too much light, some of my zoas are reaching when previously they weren't.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

He started the same time - what I understand - but it is not as easy as that - Alk, light and nutrients are coworkers in this equation. The absolute numbers of a single parameter are not necessarily the reason as they work together.

An other question - we have all concentrate on a deficiency problem but it may be the opposite. I know one compound that can cause algae free windows. How do your shrimps, hermits and snails do?

Sincerely Lasse

I've got 2 cleaner shrimp, a few trochus and a couple of hermits all doing okay.