My Current QT Process

[Pbh-reef]

To add to this — if you have room for a Rubbermaid bin you should just buy another cheap quarantine

The equipping upgrade I really need for my 10 gallon reef is a dedicated fish room!

 

[leahfiish]

Is there any reason you prefer copper power over other copper products?

 

[HotRocks]

Is there any reason you prefer copper power over other copper products?

Yes, I prefer chelated copper just because it seems to be less harsh on fish. I used to use copper safe. Due to inconsistent Cu level varying from bottle to bottle I made the switch to copper power.

Ionic copper may be better for certain species. The issue is there is a much more narrow therapeutic window for treatment which means much less room for error.

That's my .02

 

[4FordFamily]

Yes, I prefer chelated copper just because it seems to be less harsh on fish. I used to use copper safe. Due to inconsistent Cu level varying from bottle to bottle I made the switch to copper power.

Ionic copper may be better for certain species. The issue is there is a much more narrow therapeutic window for treatment which means much less room for error.

That's my .02

I concur 100%

 

[Clownfish2]

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 1.75ppm. increasing the level .25ppm per day. I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath.

Fish with ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

Good idea on the live food. I have had a sailfin tang and a clown both refuse hikari pellets when they were sick, but toss in live baby brine shrimp and they will tackle each other for it!

 

[pecan2phat]

Will Furan-2 wipe out the biological filter?

 

[HotRocks]

Will Furan-2 wipe out the biological filter?

No, I have never had any issues with biofilter/ammonia using Furan-2.

However NFG can have an impact on biofilter.

 

[pecan2phat]

Thanks HotRocks.
I thought since it's an antibacterial medication, it would affect the bio filter.

 

[drstardust]

Thanks for this thread! It's really a great protocol.

 

[pdiehm]

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 1.75ppm. increasing the level .25ppm per day. I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath.

Fish with ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

The question is...will it work for Live Aquaria fish?

all seriousness, this is good stuff.

I'm going to attempt to mirror this from now on. My question is, you are using GC (general cure) twice? Sprinkled on the food with Focus (I'm assuming pellets) and then one of the last stages of the QT process?

Could you explain how you go about lacing food with medication?

 

[HotRocks]

The question is...will it work for Live Aquaria fish?

all seriousness, this is good stuff.

I'm going to attempt to mirror this from now on. My question is, you are using GC (general cure) twice? Sprinkled on the food with Focus (I'm assuming pellets) and then one of the last stages of the QT process?

Could you explain how you go about lacing food with medication?

70-75% of the fish that have been through this process successfully came from LA.

For adding GC or Metroplex to food. I mix it in with fozen food, a bit of garlic guard for flavor and selcon to help dissolve the meds.

Prepare your frozen food. Add 1 scoop of focus and 1 scoop (same scoop used for focus) of general cure to 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food.

You can then refrigerate the mix for 3-5 days and toss and make new after that. Or refreeze what can't be used in 3-5 days etc.

The post copper 2 rounds of GC or Prazipro (5-7 days apart) is dosed into the water column to treat for external worms like flukes etc.

 

[Biglurr54]

Could you do this regimen with CP instead of copper? I am losing my butterflys to bacterial infections in the 20-30 day range. By the time the symptoms arrive its been too late for them. I am toying with the idea of prophylacticly doing a course of nfg immediately after 14 days in CP treatment.

 

[HotRocks]

Could you do this regimen with CP instead of copper? I am losing my butterflys to bacterial infections in the 20-30 day range. By the time the symptoms arrive its been too late for them. I am toying with the idea of prophylacticly doing a course of nfg immediately after 14 days in CP treatment.

Yes you could treat with CP for 14 days then make your transfer and start NFG immediately in tank 2 and continue for 14 days.

It seems butterflies and angels are super succeptable to infection during copper/CP due to the stress on the immune system.

 

[don_chuwish]

One thing that strikes me is that starting with Cu then limits your options for other treatments. For example, can you take a fish out for a Rally bath in matching salinity water (no Cu) then put it back in the Cu treated QT?
How about starting with just NFG instead? Too rough on the bio filter?

 

[HotRocks]

One thing that strikes me is that starting with Cu then limits your options for other treatments. For example, can you take a fish out for a Rally bath in matching salinity water (no Cu) then put it back in the Cu treated QT?
How about starting with just NFG instead? Too rough on the bio filter?

Yes pulling a fish out for a bath is no issue. I have done so.

If you had a fish arrive with an infection you could start with NFG instead. I would do so in a seperate QT.

I don't use NFG prophylactically. So I wouldn't start with it unless there was signs of a gram negative bacterial infection.

 

[ReefWithCare]

@HotRocks. I had a question. Can I use the liquid from of prazi and mix it in medicated food using focus or should I get the powered form to make my own general cure mix like HF is doing? Was curious since I still have plenty of liquid prazi left

 

[HotRocks]

You can use the liquid. But you'd need to add Metroplex. I don't know if they would eat it as well.

Honestly Metroplex usually does the trick. GC is like an insurance policy.

 

[ReefWithCare]

You can use the liquid. But you'd need to add Metroplex. I don't know if they would eat it as well.

Honestly Metroplex usually does the trick. GC is like an insurance policy.

So liquid plus focus will work?

Ya I mostly have to use prazi because I think I see Black ich on one of the fish and felt it’s easier to add in food since this particular fish eats like a horse

 

[HotRocks]

So liquid plus focus will work?

Ya I mostly have to use prazi because I think I see Black ich on one of the fish and felt it’s easier to add in food since this particular fish eats like a horse

If you are treating black ich you will need to dose the water.

Treated food with prazi will only combat intestinal worms.

 

[ReefWithCare]

If you are treating black ich you will need to dose the water.

Treated food with prazi will only combat intestinal worms.

Gotcha - will PraziPro kill bristle worms?