Ratios for Dosing Copper Power

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by HotRocks, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I have recently been getting a few requests for how to adjust dosing with all of my research on the hanna checker and copper power being used together. Figured I would throw this up as a point of reference.

    For anyone using Copper Power:

    Bottle concentration will bring you to a Cu level of 2.5ppm if dosed as instructed. Although it is not always necessary to dose your QT with a level that high. Copper power is considered therapeutic at a Cu Level of 1.5ppm. 1.5ppm is the MINIMUM. I personally have been using Copper Power at a level of 1.75ppm using the hanna checker to make sure I maintain a level safely above the Minimum.

    You can see @Humblefish's communication with Endich, the manufacturer of Copper Power in the thread below, verifying the minimum level of 1.5ppm

    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chelated-copper-is-chelated-copper.373513/

    To figure out how to adjust the dosages follow these easy steps;

    Total gallons x 1.475ml = Total ml to reach 2.5ppm
    Now Take 2.5ppm / Total ml = PPM per ML Dosed
    Now take desired target / PPM per ML Dosed = Total ml needed to reach desired target


    For Example my QT is a 40b. Subtract displacement Add HOB filter volume. I have exactly 40 gallons of water to treat.

    40gal x 1.475ml=59ml
    2.5ppm / 59ml= .042ppm per ml dosed
    1.75ppm / .042ppm = 41.7ml Total


    I called it 42ml total. Ramped up over 7 days (6ml per day split into 2 doses, 3ml in am/3ml in pm)
    You can then take the total ml needed for your volume and split it into whatever dosing schedule or "ramp up" you desire.

    Edit: I should have mentioned in my original post if you are using the Hanna checker to test you can do so after each dose, or every other dose and figure out exactly how many ppm you should be increasing using the above ^^^ equation. This will also indicate if you are encountering any absorption.

    Here are also some simple guidelines if you don't want to do the math above or are using visual test methods.
    This is a little less accurate than above (Just trying to keep from going out 10 decimal points), but will get you darn close.
    1.48ml per gallon = 2.5ppm
    1.33ml per gallon = 2.25ppm
    1.18ml per gallon = 2.0ppm
    1.04ml per gallon = 1.75ppm
    .89ml per gallon = 1.5ppm

    No matter which formula you use above, make sure to take the following into consideration.
    *This only works if you aren't encountering any absorption.
    *You also need to measure the volume of water in QT, for example don't just assume a 20 gallon tank to hold exactly 20 gallons (You have to consider displacement and what level you are filling the tank to, also volume of HOB if you use one.).
    *MAKE SURE TO TEST FREQUENTLY
    *If you see signs of velvet it is not recommended to use the 5-7 day ramp up period, you would want to reach at least 1.5ppm within 48 hours.


    API, Hach, Chemetrics, and Hanna are all suitable test methods for copper power.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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  2. lagatbezan

    lagatbezan Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Great write up! Thank you!!
     
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  3. Greenstreet.1

    Greenstreet.1 Valuable Member

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    Thank you.
     
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  4. dwwataz

    dwwataz nuttier than a squirrel turd R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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  5. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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  6. dwwataz

    dwwataz nuttier than a squirrel turd R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I concur
     
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  7. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Done :)

    Thanks for putting this together @HotRocks
     
  8. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    You are all welcome! Glad to do it!
     
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  9. JohnPeck

    JohnPeck Member

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    Wow! Math rules! Thankyou so much!
     
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  10. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Yes it does! You're welcome!
     
  11. Cherie cook

    Cherie cook Active Member R2R Supporter

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    How much would you add per gallon of water that you change out to control ammonia...and do you have to ramp up that amount each day as well?
     
  12. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    If you have a well established biofilter you should not have to battle ammonia much.

    In regards to replacing water that's removed, you would want to dose it to match your tank Cu level exactly prior to placing in the tank this will prevent any fluctuations in the Cu level in your tank.

    If you are in the middle of a ramp up when the need for a change arises you would just need to know the total ml dosed per gallon at the time, in order to match the new water. The ramp up is only needed to slowly introduce the fish to the copper. Once they are in the therapuetic level you no longer need to ramp them up or the new water for that matter.

    Personally when I do a water change, I siphon tank water into a bucket, place all my fish from the QT in the bucket. This keeps the fish in the same level of copper as the tank was. Then I remove tank water, re-dose, test to make sure my level is correct, adjust if need be then put the fish back.
     
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  13. drstardust

    drstardust Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    This is some solid work, sir. I certainly cannot overemphasize the need to test copper levels regularly.
     
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  14. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks!
    Yes testing regularly is a MUST! No way around it!
     
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  15. Tanggy

    Tanggy Active Member

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    I've just lost a lineatus wrasse while dosing with copper power. I was revamping to therapeutic level. Lineatus acted weird and skittish. I was only at 1.06 ppm on the 5th day. I changed water and place cuprisorb. Got the copper down but it died today. I am thinking about going back to cupramine. Can you use the Hanna copper checker with cupramine? thanks...
     
  16. drstardust

    drstardust Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Yes you can :) Different type of copper (ionic) so much lower therapeutic level of 0.5.
     
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  17. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Some other things to consider when using copper.

    Copper depletes O2 from the water. You have to have extra oxygen exchange to counteract it.

    As you raise the Cu level it can also impact your biofilter. Watch for ammonia spikes.

    Velvet/ich/flukes can be very hard to spot on wrasse. Their thick mucus coat makes them "seem" resistant, when they may in fact be afflicted. For this reason I like to have multiple species of fish in the same QT to help spot other issues.

    Just some food for thought. I find it hard to believe that the copper level you reached was toxic. It is most likely a combination of the above listed things that could be happening during the QT process.
     
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  18. Tanggy

    Tanggy Active Member

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    Right now, my QT is empty. I am assuming it has velvet/ich/flukes...I am thinking about dosing with copper for 1 month while it still fishless just kill whatever that's in there. The QT have been running for a few months now. Or should I just wipeout the QT and start from scratch again. Thanks...
     
  19. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Either way could work. Sterilization may be your best option given the circumstances, you will just have to get your biofilter established again.

    If you opt to treat it, I would ghost feed it to allow your biofilter to remain in tact.
     
  20. Tanggy

    Tanggy Active Member

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    How long should I let the QT go fishless if I choose treated it with copper? Should I treat it with something else in case it has flukes?
     
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