My Dinoflagellate Experience - Prorocentrum

[taricha]

A couple of comments.
Phosphate 2+ ppm?!?
As dinos decrease, and later as other organisms increase, the consumption of elements in your tank will go through some pretty big swings. It will settle down eventually.
Dinos when active and blooming can actually consume a LOT of phosphates.
Don't daily test calcium to determine your daily dose. There's no way to be accurate enough for that to be worth it. Test alkalinity, and dose that, then add balance amount of calcium.
I promise they are moving together in the expected ratio it's just that calcium you can't detect the changes accurately, and Alk you can.

 

[JayinToronto]

A couple of comments.
Phosphate 2+ ppm?!?
As dinos decrease, and later as other organisms increase, the consumption of elements in your tank will go through some pretty big swings. It will settle down eventually.
Dinos when active and blooming can actually consume a LOT of phosphates.
Don't daily test calcium to determine your daily dose. There's no way to be accurate enough for that to be worth it. Test alkalinity, and dose that, then add balance amount of calcium.
I promise they are moving together in the expected ratio it's just that calcium you can't detect the changes accurately, and Alk you can.

Sorry, I meant phosphate .3 from .22
It’s interesting that your saying to not test calcium daily. I was just concerned when it went above 500 and thought that I should take a little break on the dosing, but I will ramp it back up.
I really appreciate your following my thread and offering this advise.

 

[taricha]

Let me clarify, although it's a bit off topic. If your calcium is high, then sure, make an adjustment.
My point was that the short term changes in calcium over a day or two or three are pretty much always random error fluctuations.
if there is a real increase or decrease in calcification, then you will see it in alkalinity first.

 

[JayinToronto]

Let me clarify, although it's a bit off topic. If your calcium is high, then sure, make an adjustment.
My point was that the short term changes in calcium over a day or two or three are pretty much always random error fluctuations.
if there is a real increase or decrease in calcification, then you will see it in alkalinity first.

Got ya. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

How big of a hole do I need to quickly and reliably break the suction?

Any drillbit size will work. It's a compromise between losing flow through the hole and speed of breaking the syphon. But it will always work reliably unless something grows over it and clogs it. Thus why I recommend the hole be slightly over the water line. I recommend trying your smallest drill bit size first and if you fell it is too slow, then you can always go bigger. Plus smaller holes are easier to drill, especially on the outside of a round pipe. If you do go up a size, then you have a pilot hole to make the bigger hole easier to drill.

I too noticed a sudden and significant change is phosphate consumption when I was battling dinos. It marked a major turning point. The ones on the sand and gha took the longest to go away but I ended up not removing any of my sand. Took about a year to be 100% but I had one of the worst cases I ever saw. It actually took about half a year of way over aggressively using Phosban to get it that bad. So it makes sense that it would take time to undo my screw up.

 

[JayinToronto]

Any drillbit size will work. It's a compromise between losing flow through the hole and speed of breaking the syphon. But it will always work reliably unless something grows over it and clogs it. Thus why I recommend the hole be slightly over the water line. I recommend trying your smallest drill bit size first and if you fell it is too slow, then you can always go bigger. Plus smaller holes are easier to drill, especially on the outside of a round pipe. If you do go up a size, then you have a pilot hole to make the bigger hole easier to drill.

I too noticed a sudden and significant change is phosphate consumption when I was battling dinos. It marked a major turning point. The ones on the sand and gha took the longest to go away but I ended up not removing any of my sand. Took about a year to be 100% but I had one of the worst cases I ever saw. It actually took about half a year of way over aggressively using Phosban to get it that bad. So it makes sense that it would take time to undo my screw up.

Took about a year?!? Wow. I’ll be honest, I’m getting a little bit of aquarium exhaustion over this. I do think I’m over the acute phase though. I don’t think there is really much benefit to daily suctioning and blowing the dinos off at night any more. I sure hope mine doesn’t take as long as yours. I may be out of the hobby if it takes that long. Do you have a link to a thread or pics of your so I can compare our starting points? I too was a victim of waaaaaaay too much GFO.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Mine was the worse case I think I have ever heard of. I don't have a thread or pictures unfortunately. I was following the dino sticky and posted several times in there. My tank looks good now. Your starting point is WAY better than mine. Most people take a month to get things looking good again but can relapse up to 3 months afterwards if they don't maintain nutrients.

 

[JayinToronto]

Update:
1 month since I corrected my phosphate and nitrate deficiencies and got my UV up and running properly. Overall things have greatly improved. There are only a few small patches of dinoflagellates on the rocks. The two problem areas are my chaeto bed and my sand. There hasn't been any improvment in those two areas at all. I've been rinsing my cheato in fresh water every couple days, but within 48h the dinos cover it completely. So today I decided to throw it out. It was a tough decision but I think overall it's for the best, at least right now. I am concerned about it not being there for nitrate/phosphate transport, but I will continue to monitor my nitrate and phosphate level daily and adjust dosing/feeding as necessary. My phosphate has been stable around 0.2 and my nitrate has been stable between 5 and 10 (that's as close as I can estimate using the Salifert kit). With regards to the sand, I just can't bring myself to remove it. I love how it looks and I love all the critters that live in it. Plus my Diamond Goby is one of my favourite fish and he would be very unhappy in a glass bottom aquarium. So I'm just going to ride it out for a while longer.

I've also finally stabilized my other chemistry. Alk is sitting stable at 10.5, Calcium at 480 and Mg at 1330. Was it ever a rollercoaster with those over the last month. I've finally had 7 straight days of stability.

All in all I'm very happy with the progress and will continue to update as things go along.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Glad to hear things have improved. You may have a different strain in the sand. Bacteria dosing usually helps with dinos in the sand. Many people have had success with MicroBactor 7.

Removing the cheato was a good move. Exporting nutrients when you are trying to raise them through dosing is counter productive. You can always get more later if nutrients start to get too high.

 

[Cory]

How big of a hole do I need to quickly and reliably break the suction?

Start with 1/4" and make sure you drill it at an angle that the water would spray into tbe tank not out of it.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Start with 1/4" and make sure you drill it at an angle that the water would spray into tbe tank not out of it.

I used a 1/16" hole but my pipes are only 1/2". So a 1/4" hole would be way too big for my application. There needs to be a balance between loss of flow and time to break the syphon. It will be a percentage of your pipe size so better to error on the small side because you can always make the hole larger but it's hard to make them smaller. One size won't fit all.

 

[Cory]

I used a 1/16" hole but my pipes are only 1/2". So a 1/4" hole would be way too big for my application. There needs to be a balance between loss of flow and time to break the syphon. It will be a percentage of your pipe size so better to error on the small side because you can always make the hole larger but it's hard to make them smaller. One size won't fit all.

Yeah would habe been to big. Does it work?

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

It does. It takes a few seconds but I am okay with that as my fuge water level accommodates it. It was more important to me to sacrifice as little flow to the outlet as possible. It also makes a sucking sound that is very audible as it breaks the syphon. This comes in handy as an alert should the pump stop running for some reason, which has happened once over the 4 years it has been running.

 

[JayinToronto]

Update:
Overall continued improvement. Zero Dinos on the rocks, but it’s still quite present in the sand, however I think it’s slowly dying back. Fish are doing great but I’m still having coral problems. The tips of my large staghorn are dying and my prized plate coral is starting to go. ;-(

Going to just stay the course unless anyone has any tips of how to save my corals?

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Are you running GAC for dino toxins?

 

[JayinToronto]

Yes.
Changing weekly.
Perhaps I need more? Do you think that’s why my corals are looking the way they are?

Are you running GAC for dino toxins?

 

[Cory]

What level is your no3/po4 now?

 

[Cory]

Maybe its because your dkh shot up to 13 dkh a month ago.

 

[JayinToronto]

What level is your no3/po4 now?

No3 approx 7.5 (somewhere between 5 and 10 on the salifert test kit). PO4 0.16. Both steady. Both being dosed.

 

[JayinToronto]

Maybe its because your dkh shot up to 13 dkh a month ago.

Yea, it sucks that happened. I fairly quickly brought it down to 11 after that. Since then I’ve been keeping it steady. Letting it drop about .1 / week. Now down to 10.4 with Ca at 480. Equal 2 part ESV. Mg stable at 1320. In the past I kept my aquarium between 8 and 9 dkh. Maybe that coral just likes it lower. My current plan is to let it continue to drop around .1/week until I’m back in that 9-10 range. Thoughts?