My goni not looking so good. Added manganese and doesnt seem to like it.
- Thread starter Seansea
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Lavey29
10K Club member
I wonder if he would do better lower down on the right kind of same level as the hammer but on the right side. All mine are near the bottom same level as my hammers.I got some before and after photos
Before:
After (now)
Derrick0580
Valuable Member
Yes, you and me both. It’s soo annoying!
Court_Appointed_Hypeman
Valuable Member
This shouldn't be the case over longer term.
Unless it's at some point getting a 100% change, but I am not sure what the rates of that would be.
I would think if elements are depleting, that 20% water changes a week would not suffice. If I was relying on that in my tank I would never have iodine iron or manganese in my tank.
Though I am not an expert by any means, i jist feel like the narative of water changes handling traces on its own in a system eith demand needs to be pushed back on a little. My tank is not that dense and I bottom out quick, but I have 4 gallons of chaeto and a gallon of kenya tree in roughly 80 gallons of water, so I very well might be a special case for younger tanks.
Saying water changes handle traces is probably true over a few years in a lot of systems for all I know, I am operating off of too small of an anecdotal sample, and the idea that %50 of target concentration trace +20% water change would just result in %60 target concentration.
Though again, I am not an expert and feel free to disregard my thoughts on this. My math might even be wrong.
Attaching a pic to try to get my thought accross a little better. Assuming trace X target is 50ppm, and is consumed at 5ppm a week with 20% weekly water changes with the new water at the target concentration of 50ppm. I just ran this calculator for the first time and if this was me and just keeping detectible iron strontium and iodine, this demonstrates to me I would have to have a salt mix with a very high concentration to keep up.
That might be a decent idea for a diy salt actually for dedicated scheduled water changes or an awc system, but I guess that would be no different than dosing traces, which we rely on imperfect testing and most of us don't diy our traces as much as we should. Personally I rely on TM trace A and K, and brightwell for iodine chaetogrow for iron and other traces, and briggtwell strontium. None of which do I understand the concentration of, and have spent a few hundered over a few months to get an idea of what my consumption is and if my input is adequate. Lucky me, I am aparently super lucky in this hobby and guessed the amounts and hit my targets pretty quick, but this could be completely wrong, I am relying on the cheapest icp, bad seachem trace kits, and that a blend of traces based on consumption if other elements (tms trace system and other traces added along with chaetogrow baded only on iron consumption)
Edit: basically I have been mulling this over and i read your comment at the right time to think through it on paper, this is not at all against your advice as I believe its a way better method than playing mad scientist with a moving target in the dark with a 2 week lagtime.
2nd edit: i forget how good graphs are at pushing a narative, as you can see it looks like it would eventually level out at 30 in this scenario of a 10%/week consumption rate. I saw the graph and was like OMG
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Court_Appointed_Hypeman
Valuable Member
I wonder what the high end for manganese is, it sounds like it has some great benefits, and maybe even elevating it further if safe would really help coral immunity/stability
OP
OP
Seansea
Valuable Member
I agree court with your assesment on water changes and in fact can i attest to your evaluation because my icp tests come short on all kinds of stuff despite weekly water changes. I have an algae scrubber and it is gonna draw way more traces than a weekly water change can handle.
steveschuerger
I love Gonis and Euphyllia. Maybe too much
So I’ve got a boatload of Gonis. I dose with B-Ionic 2 part daily, kz 4 part micro element/color enhancer(I believe it has Manganese as one of the elements), small doses of Seachem Iodide x2 a week Seachem Reef Plus a couple times a week . I broadcast feed frozen and Reef Snow daily and add phyto at night.
gbroadbridge
2500 Club Member
One of mine did that about 4 months ago - retracted right back while the one next to it was fine.
I was sure it was going to die so moved it to the back of the tank - very low light and very little flow and it came back after a couple of months.
Goni's are strange.
Lavey29
10K Club member
Now that's a reply. Trace elements are a small section in the big story of the reef. Randy often comments how people with high or low certain elements should not be a concern. I went for 1.5 years with weekly water changes never dosing any trace. As I spread my water changes out to 3 weeks with a full biolod of corals and chaeto my ICP started showing lower numbers in some trace areas. Dosing red sea in between my water changes suffices to replenish those trace areas. On my water change day I don't dose trace at all and now for the past year I am very well balanced each month.This shouldn't be the case over longer term.
Unless it's at some point getting a 100% change, but I am not sure what the rates of that would be.
I would think if elements are depleting, that 20% water changes a week would not suffice. If I was relying on that in my tank I would never have iodine iron or manganese in my tank.
Though I am not an expert by any means, i jist feel like the narative of water changes handling traces on its own in a system eith demand needs to be pushed back on a little. My tank is not that dense and I bottom out quick, but I have 4 gallons of chaeto and a gallon of kenya tree in roughly 80 gallons of water, so I very well might be a special case for younger tanks.
Saying water changes handle traces is probably true over a few years in a lot of systems for all I know, I am operating off of too small of an anecdotal sample, and the idea that %50 of target concentration trace +20% water change would just result in %60 target concentration.
Though again, I am not an expert and feel free to disregard my thoughts on this. My math might even be wrong.
Attaching a pic to try to get my thought accross a little better. Assuming trace X target is 50ppm, and is consumed at 5ppm a week with 20% weekly water changes with the new water at the target concentration of 50ppm. I just ran this calculator for the first time and if this was me and just keeping detectible iron strontium and iodine, this demonstrates to me I would have to have a salt mix with a very high concentration to keep up.
That might be a decent idea for a diy salt actually for dedicated scheduled water changes or an awc system, but I guess that would be no different than dosing traces, which we rely on imperfect testing and most of us don't diy our traces as much as we should. Personally I rely on TM trace A and K, and brightwell for iodine chaetogrow for iron and other traces, and briggtwell strontium. None of which do I understand the concentration of, and have spent a few hundered over a few months to get an idea of what my consumption is and if my input is adequate. Lucky me, I am aparently super lucky in this hobby and guessed the amounts and hit my targets pretty quick, but this could be completely wrong, I am relying on the cheapest icp, bad seachem trace kits, and that a blend of traces based on consumption if other elements (tms trace system and other traces added along with chaetogrow baded only on iron consumption)
Edit: basically I have been mulling this over and i read your comment at the right time to think through it on paper, this is not at all against your advice as I believe its a way better method than playing mad scientist with a moving target in the dark with a 2 week lagtime.
2nd edit: i forget how good graphs are at pushing a narative, as you can see it looks like it would eventually level out at 30 in this scenario of a 10%/week consumption rate. I saw the graph and was like OMG
I appreciate your post and certainly each tank is unique and some that have very aggressive export may not work with just a water change.
Lavey29
10K Club member
Well this certainly may be a contributing factor. I just use a fuge and skimmer.
Court_Appointed_Hypeman
Valuable Member
That makes sense, export pulls them out of the ecosystem and is removed from the food chain.
Makes sense to the recent whispers I heard about iodine in the system more so being introduced via feedings of nori, since it deoletes so rapidly. Actually I think randy made a post about what adds more of a trace in regards to food.
I am pretty certain I would not be dosing nearly as many traces if it wasn't for the kenya tree and chaeto export. Shoot, the way kenya trees grow it may as well be a fuge option, probably pulls put more particulate and phosphates than my skimmer at the rate I pull then out. And the more kenya tree I have allowed in the more iodine I feel I had to put in. Idk if they use it for sure or not, but they started reproducing more once I started adding it.
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
Update:
I don’t think trace elements are the issue for me. I did a couple of 15% water changes over the past weeks, and yesterday I started dosing Tropic Marin K+. I did not see my Goniopora expand any more than they already were
In fact, at least 2 of them are continuing to recede.
My new hypothesis: feeding.
I remember I used to feed the tank with BRS Reef Chili. I used to enjoy target feeding the tank. I haven’t done so in quite a while. My newest “experiment” includes target feeding. I’ll update if I see any changes. I will continue to dose trace elements, because mine are depleted anyway.
It is not a study. I just want my corals to be happy. I’m going keep trying things until I succeed.
Reference photos of my gonioporas that are suffering.
I don’t think trace elements are the issue for me. I did a couple of 15% water changes over the past weeks, and yesterday I started dosing Tropic Marin K+. I did not see my Goniopora expand any more than they already were
In fact, at least 2 of them are continuing to recede.
My new hypothesis: feeding.
I remember I used to feed the tank with BRS Reef Chili. I used to enjoy target feeding the tank. I haven’t done so in quite a while. My newest “experiment” includes target feeding. I’ll update if I see any changes. I will continue to dose trace elements, because mine are depleted anyway.
It is not a study. I just want my corals to be happy. I’m going keep trying things until I succeed.
Reference photos of my gonioporas that are suffering.
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OP
OP
Seansea
Valuable Member
Well mine is almost completely gone maybe 3 or 4 heads left. Still dosing manganese bit seems to do nothing. Pretty much have written this one off as dead soldier. Fingers crossed his pal next to him doesnt go down same road but seems to be fine at this point.
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
I think the feeding is working!!
I’ll keep you guys updated. I’m using BRS Reef Chili almost every day.
Took this photo just now.
I’ll keep you guys updated. I’m using BRS Reef Chili almost every day.
Took this photo just now.
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