My New Babies

[michael_cb_125]

Hello everyone!!
I recently added two new fish to my little reef. A Yellow Leaf Fish and a Barb Fish. I have kept all of the common scorps, and several of the harder to find species over the years. I was starting to miss having oddball fish, and the day after Christmas picked up these little guys. Both are right at 2 inches in total length. The leaf fish is so small that his internal organs are visible.

In the past I have never had issues getting barbfish to eat frozen food, the leaf fish have been more challenging IME. That said, I was ready to take a chance.
After adding them to the tank, my lantern bass had to establish his dominance. After a few hours of him harassing the new guys he settled down. I added mysis to the tank, and both new additions actively fed.

Day two, I introduced them to the syringe full of mysis. They again actively fed.
Day three, they recognize my wife and I as the food source.
I now have them trained to eat directly from the syringe. The barbfish will latch onto the end and I squirt the mysis into his throat. The Leafish likes to eat from the water column, so I shoot mysis right at him. He hops right to the syringe and waits for me to "release" his food.

The leaf fish and barb fish also do not mind touching each other, and almost seem to like the interaction. My wife asked me why they cuddle most of the time, LOL

At the rate they are going I will have them trained to feed from my hand in the next few days.
In the past I have always trained my scorps to hop into my hand, lift them to the surface and feed directly in my hand. This has worked for Rhinopias, Cockatoo Wasp, Ambon Scorp and many others for me.

While I know there is risk of getting stung (I have been hit by both of these species in the past, always my fault), I love the interaction and I end up with no wasted food!!


On a side note, my wife said they were ugly when I brought them home. Once they started the food hop, her stance changed. Now they are the cutest things ever!!

I will try to get some good photos this evening, and a feeding video!!

~Michael

 

[lion king]

I am curious what diet you have been feeding, how often, and how long you have kept them. How long did you have the rhinopias and what were you feeding them.

 

[michael_cb_125]

It has been a long time since I have kept many scorpionfish. The last 15 years I was heavily focused on trying to get viable eggs from my pair of bandit angels, and really did not keep many other fish.

After I lost my last bandit a year ago or so, I got back into other fish.

The longest I was able to keep my rhinopias was 6 years, the Ambons that I kept were a pain in the butt. They were hard to feed frozen food, and would usually only eat live shrimp. I never could get past the year mark with them. I really think it was intestinal parasites..
All the smaller scorps I have had varying lifespans from a short 2 years to 5 years.

Diet was always mixed. I used to make my own seafood mix, and used that exclusively. I never feed live fish, and only use live shrimp of needed, and those I collect myself at the coast.

 

[lion king]

I've never known anyone keeping them that long on a dead only diet, that's why I'm curious what you were feeding and how often. As far as the ones you have now, although the barbfish will easily take dead foods, everyone I've known only keeps them about 1,5 years at most, usually just several months. The leaf fish on the other hand seems to wither away in a matter of months. So it would be great if you would share some detail how you achieve some longer success feeding a dead diet. I'm a live food advocate and have found my success adding live foods, most would like not to use live food, so any help would be appreciated.

 

[michael_cb_125]

I am currently hiking in the mountains, lol
As soon as I return, I will go into more detail on my food mix and routines.
I have a theory on live vs. Dead foods and the proteins and fats we feed our predatory species.

 

[michael_cb_125]

Good Morning!!
I am fortunate enough to have direct access to some of the best seafood available, as well as some insight into marine fish diet. Long before I was a keeper of marine fish, I was a fisherman. In addition to a fisherman, I am also an avid seafood eater. As such, I have had my hands inside more fish bellies than I can count. I get to see EXACTLY what different species of fish consume. I have always removed and inspected the organs and stomach contents of every fish I keep. Over the last 30 years I have become quite proficient at identifying internal parasites as well as stomach contents (partially digested) of the fish I keep. We primarily fish for reef associated species (groupers, wrasses, hogfish, basslets, scorpions, etc.) so this information can be lightly applied to many of the species that we keep in our aquariums.

Sorry for the long intro, but it gives some insight to my knowledge base. I am not a biologist, simply a curious person that notes and records what I see.

Here is a list of the foods that I use:

Shrimp:
White Shrimp (Litopenaeus setiferus)
Grass Shrimp (Palaemonetes vulgaris)

Fish:
Atlantic Silverside (Menidia menidia)
Atlantic Menhaden (Brevoortia tyrannus)
Atlantic Sardine (Sardina sp.)

Bi-Valves:
Northern Quahog (Mercenaria mercenaria)
Oysters (Crassostrea virginica)
Atlantic Ribbed Mussels (Gaukensia demissa)

All of the items listed above, I harvest myself. Here is more information on each item:

The white shrimp are what I consider to be the cleaner option for large shrimp. These are typically found on sand in open ocean versus inshore waters. The brown shrimp that we have are found on mud bottom inshore habitat and as such are subjected to more contaminants via runoff, boat traffic etc. Once I have caught them, they are sorted for size. Anything under 2" is frozen whole, anything larger is chopped into 1/2" pieces.

I collect the grass shrimp from inshore estuaries that are miles from main boating channels and closer to the ocean. These are coming from water with high salinity and very little runoff. These shrimp average 3/4". After collection, I keep them in clean saltwater with Ulva for roughly a week to purge them. After this they are typically frozen, unless I am weaning a fish.

The Silversides are collected in the surf and offshore up to a mile. The smaller (under 2") are frozen whole, and the larger ones I typically cut into 1/2" sections prior to freezing.

I collect my menhaden anywhere from 500 yards off the beach, out to 3 miles. When I am lucky I can find 2" fish which I will freeze whole. Most of the time they are large, and I cut into small chunks.

The Sardines (along with cigar minnows and a few other "baitfish") are harvest out 10 miles or further. These are cut into small pieces and frozen.

All of the bi-valves are harvested in pristine estuaries far from any runoff. After collection I allow them to purge in pure seawater for up to a week depending on where and when I collected them. After this, they are shucked, chopped and frozen.

I make a frozen mix, similar to many that are available. The main difference I that I am using baitfish that are very nutrient dense. Basically, I just mix everything listed above. I like to have the mixture half fish, a quarter shrimp and a quarter bi-valves. With that said, this is not a food that you would want to broadcast feed. There are so many fats/oils in this mix. It would be very easy to overload a tank with nutrients using this food.

I always spot feed with this mixture, and like to use a large baster to get the food directly into the fish.

If you have any other questions just let me know.

~Michael

 

[lion king]

Good Morning!!
I am fortunate enough to have direct access to some of the best seafood available, as well as some insight into marine fish diet. Long before I was a keeper of marine fish, I was a fisherman. In addition to a fisherman, I am also an avid seafood eater. As such, I have had my hands inside more fish bellies than I can count. I get to see EXACTLY what different species of fish consume. I have always removed and inspected the organs and stomach contents of every fish I keep. Over the last 30 years I have become quite proficient at identifying internal parasites as well as stomach contents (partially digested) of the fish I keep. We primarily fish for reef associated species (groupers, wrasses, hogfish, basslets, scorpions, etc.) so this information can be lightly applied to many of the species that we keep in our aquariums.

Sorry for the long intro, but it gives some insight to my knowledge base. I am not a biologist, simply a curious person that notes and records what I see.

Here is a list of the foods that I use:

Shrimp:
White Shrimp (Litopenaeus setiferus)
Grass Shrimp (Palaemonetes vulgaris)

Fish:
Atlantic Silverside (Menidia menidia)
Atlantic Menhaden (Brevoortia tyrannus)
Atlantic Sardine (Sardina sp.)

Bi-Valves:
Northern Quahog (Mercenaria mercenaria)
Oysters (Crassostrea virginica)
Atlantic Ribbed Mussels (Gaukensia demissa)

All of the items listed above, I harvest myself. Here is more information on each item:

The white shrimp are what I consider to be the cleaner option for large shrimp. These are typically found on sand in open ocean versus inshore waters. The brown shrimp that we have are found on mud bottom inshore habitat and as such are subjected to more contaminants via runoff, boat traffic etc. Once I have caught them, they are sorted for size. Anything under 2" is frozen whole, anything larger is chopped into 1/2" pieces.

I collect the grass shrimp from inshore estuaries that are miles from main boating channels and closer to the ocean. These are coming from water with high salinity and very little runoff. These shrimp average 3/4". After collection, I keep them in clean saltwater with Ulva for roughly a week to purge them. After this they are typically frozen, unless I am weaning a fish.

The Silversides are collected in the surf and offshore up to a mile. The smaller (under 2") are frozen whole, and the larger ones I typically cut into 1/2" sections prior to freezing.

I collect my menhaden anywhere from 500 yards off the beach, out to 3 miles. When I am lucky I can find 2" fish which I will freeze whole. Most of the time they are large, and I cut into small chunks.

The Sardines (along with cigar minnows and a few other "baitfish") are harvest out 10 miles or further. These are cut into small pieces and frozen.

All of the bi-valves are harvested in pristine estuaries far from any runoff. After collection I allow them to purge in pure seawater for up to a week depending on where and when I collected them. After this, they are shucked, chopped and frozen.

I make a frozen mix, similar to many that are available. The main difference I that I am using baitfish that are very nutrient dense. Basically, I just mix everything listed above. I like to have the mixture half fish, a quarter shrimp and a quarter bi-valves. With that said, this is not a food that you would want to broadcast feed. There are so many fats/oils in this mix. It would be very easy to overload a tank with nutrients using this food.

I always spot feed with this mixture, and like to use a large baster to get the food directly into the fish.

If you have any other questions just let me know.

~Michael

Yes IF a person can get the species I write about to accept the foods you describe, they can live a long healthy captive life. The fact is many of the species will never accept the foods, many times no dead food at all. And most hobbyists don't have access to the foods necessary, even with the readily available dead foods I suggest, most hobbyist fail.

With that said, I commend you for protocol.

 

[michael_cb_125]

What are your thoughts on on (marine based) fats vs. proteins in the diet of predatory fish?

This is something that intrigues me.

~Michael

 

[lion king]

I posted a study about fats in lionfish, Ill have to find. Funny, I'm going to link your post as I can barely get people to include a fatty fish like salmon must less fresh. Many have a negative connotation about feeder fish, but I recommend brackish fish guppies and mollies, which do contain a similar protein and fat profile as their native diets. You may not have seen some of threads, I've been posting for years about nutrition in predatory fish.

 

[michael_cb_125]

I have read some of your posts for sure. Granted, it has been a minute.
I need to look back and do some reading.

While not predatory, my bandit angels probably ate more salmon than I have!
I changed up with the salmon several years back, and liked the results with the smaller "baitfish". Plus to get fresh non treated wild salmon here in NC is all but impossible.

Thank you checking out my thread.
I really need to figure out how to upload video to this site...

 

[michael_cb_125]

It has been a minute since my last post.
The barbfish ans leaf fish have continued to thrive in my little tank. The barbfish has gained amazing red coloration with neat orange patches. He has well over doubled in size, and will now eat anything from my hand directly at the surface. He hovers and jumps to action. The leaf fish has gained about 2 cm in length, but will still only feed from a stick.
Two days ago I added a scorpaena grandicornis that I caught this past weekend. I caught him in a cast net in eastern NC while shrimping.
I thought he was a piece of rubble in the net, grabbed him to get the "trash" out of the net. Only after he lit me up (stung) me, did I realize it was a fish. I must say for a 1.5" fish he did some damage. Very painful to say the least. Anyway, he has now been in the tank since Sunday. Yesterday he at directly from the stick. I figured it would take live food to get him started, but was pleased that he ate krill already. Maybe him seeing the other scorpions feeding initiated the feeding response.
Now I have three very neat stinging critters!
Pictures to come.

 

[lion king]

I heard the sting from some other scorps are bit more than the sting from lions. I've only been stung once from a zebra lionfish.

 

[michael_cb_125]

I have been hit by cockatoo wasps, barbfish, a few unidentified species and now this little guy. None were fun, but I have a very high pain tolerance, lol.
The only lion I have been stung by was a 16 inch violitans that I caught here in NC.
The lions in Florida you see caught are decent sized, but nothing like the monsters we have up here in NC. The biggest I have seen here so far was over 18 inches long and underwater was the size of a small breed turkey, lol.
I will try to get some good photos this evening