My SPS are dying. Burnt Tips. Please Help.

kruler

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I am at my wits’ end and getting very discouraged so I am reaching out for help. To sum it up, there is something killing my SPS corals in an nine month old system and I cannot figure out what. I successfully grew acros in my last tank, but have been failing miserably in this one. So I am going to lay out as much info about the conditions as possible in hopes that a reef detective out there can figure out the culprit.

Symptoms: Montis are the first to go. They get “burnt” edges within a week of going into the system and then lose all colour. They retain their polyps until they die. Acros take a bit longer to show signs of stress. They have good polyp extension and look good for about a week, then they will get burnt tips which turn white and then grow a bit of brown algae on them (see below photo). Sometimes they look fine otherwise but any new growing tips will burn. Other times they will slowly STN after getting the burned tips. I will also occasionally see across sliming heavily for no reason and some have just decided to peel completely overnight. I killed a birdsnest frag within a few days – who does that? What is unusual is that most retain good polyp extension and otherwise look happy. A frag might be 80% white but the last 20% has full PE and looks good. This issue first presented on October 19, 2020. Before that there was at least two months where all the frags I added looked great. LPS corals all look fine.

System: The tank is a Redsea Reefer XL425 (112 total volume) which was set up in April/May this year. It is bare bottom and there is a ¼” sheet of ABS on the bottom. The rock is Caribsea Liferock. There is a current FTS below.

Lighting: 2 x Radion XR30 G4 pros running a WWC template for 10.5 hours per day. I reduced to 40% from 50% overall intensity because I thought that maybe the issue was too much light. See below photo of schedule.

Flow: There is 500gph going through the return and 3 MP40s running Reef Crest at 40% 24/7

Filtration: I replaced the stock filter socks with a Clarisea filter roller. This keeps the water very clear. There are 3 brightwell bricks in the sump and I am running one 11oz pouch of Chemipure Blue. The skimmer is a Nyos 160 and there is a 55w UV sterilizer plumbed in line with the return.

Dosing: The only thing I dose is ESV 2 part. It is dosed via the Apex and DOS. Alk is dosed at night and Ca is dosed during the day. The system is only consuming 15ml of each per day, which I find strange given that there are a number of frags and there is coralline growing.

Salt: Tropic Marin Pro.

Source water: BRS 7 stage RODI. New when I set up this tank 9 months ago. Shows 0 TDS.

Livestock: 5 tangs (yellow x 2, whitetail, achilles, hippo), 2 clowns, hawkfish, starry blenny, cleaner wrasse, 3 bimaculatus anthias and a damsel. Two cleaner shrimp and a bunch of snails. Several acros frags, 2 maricultured acro colonies, a couple torches, trachys, blastos, duncans, gonis. Only the hard corals seem to be affected by whatever the issue is.

Feeding: LRS Reef Frenzy or Fish Frenzy twice per day. Nori every few days.

Parameters:

Temp: 77-79 (temp regularly swings between these numbers. I do not think my heater ever comes on)
Salinity: 1.026
Ph: 8.2-8.3
Alk: 8.1
Ca: 430
Mg: 1290
No3: 20
Po4: 0.08

When this issue started, nitrates were stable at 10 and phosphates were stable at 0.04. They recently climbed up and I am working on getting them back down.

Other observations:
There is pretty good coralline growth in the tank and there is good sponge growth on the underside of the rocks. There was an outbreak of pineapple sponges in the sump early on, but they have greatly reduced and the remaining ones have turned from white to brown. There are many fan worms in the sump and there are tons of spiorbid worms in the display covering the rocks and bottom. There has never been a speck of algae and I am not sure whether this is just because the tangs are working hard or the UV. I really do not think the issue is with my husbandry.

Thoughts and steps taken:
From my searches, burnt tips are usually caused by issues with high Alk, either sustained where nutrients are low or a spike. I usually test Alk daily with a Hanna checker and have never seen it outside of 7.6 to 8.4. It has been very stable at 8.1 for a while now.

My next theory was lighting. I was initially running AB+ at 50 or 60%. When I saw the burnt tips I went to the WWC schedule (see photo) at 50% and then reduced further to 40%. My thought was that the water was so clear from the clarisea and UV that there was too much light penetration. However, I measured PAR before reducing and the numbers seemed fine (~400 at top to ~150 at bottom). I have not measured again since reducing as I borrowed a PAR meter to measure before.

I then thought there must be some contaminant in the water. I sent an ICP test to ICPAnalysis.com on November 2nd. I did not get those results until December because of internal issues they had. My experience with them did not leave me confident about the accuracy of the results, but the results did not show anything too scary. But here are the readings out of range:

Al = 0.31ppm
Ba = 0.03ppm
Ce = 0.01ppm
Rb = 0.05ppm
Si = 1.18ppm
U = 0.02ppm
RODI water showed all zeros.

I have done a number of 20% water changes and have been running carbon. If it was a one time contaminant, I am pretty sure it would have been removed entirely through water changes and/or carbon. I even made my girlfriend start only spraying her hair garbage in a room at the other end of the house from the tank with the door closed. I rarely put my hands in the tank and if I do, I wash meticulously first.

Could the ABS on the bottom be leaching something? It’s the same stuff BRS used for their 750. If so, is there any way to test for it?

I took apart and inspected the MP40 wetsides and skimmer pump and they looked fine. I then took apart the pump I use to mix and move saltwater and found these weird bubbles in the plastic they pour to seal the internal components (see below photo). I do not know if it was always like this or if it happened during use. The bubbles are soft and crunchy to the touch. I tossed the pump and all the water it had touched. Could this be an issue?

I very much appreciate whoever reads all of this and offers any advice or ideas they may have. PLEASE HELP!

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T-J

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I read all of it, and looking at the pic of your acro, those look like normal growth tips. White just at the tips usually indicates the areas of growth. I get excited when I see a branch on one of my SPS get a white (or other light color) tip because I know it's about to start growing like crazy there.

Now, if they are truly bleaching down the branch and then the whole body, ultimately losing flesh, that's another story. In addition to too much light, bleaching can be caused by too warm of water (have you verified tank temp with other thermometers?),

Long shot, but have you tested for stray voltage? Just throwing things out there because none of your numbers look to be crazy out of line. You did show PAR of around 400 in some spots which, depending on the coral, could be too much for them.

Sorry you're having such a hard time.
 

ScottB

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I believe you are doing everything correctly. Parameters, light, flow, "stable" parameters, and all that.

One question: did you begin with dead rock or live rock?

I think all you need to do is slightly adjust your expectations. Otherwise just keep doing what you are doing while your biome matures. While not visible to you, there is still a huge amount of change going in in your biome with different bacteria and microfauna battling it out.

At 9-10 months now, you are getting very close, so just hang on to stability.

If you started with dead rock, find some old live stuff and sump it. For an interesting discussion on this subject of biome maturity/diversity, you can thumb through this thread:

 
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kruler

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I read all of it, and looking at the pic of your acro, those look like normal growth tips. White just at the tips usually indicates the areas of growth. I get excited when I see a branch on one of my SPS get a white (or other light color) tip because I know it's about to start growing like crazy there.

Now, if they are truly bleaching down the branch and then the whole body, ultimately losing flesh, that's another story. In addition to too much light, bleaching can be caused by too warm of water (have you verified tank temp with other thermometers?),

Long shot, but have you tested for stray voltage? Just throwing things out there because none of your numbers look to be crazy out of line. You did show PAR of around 400 in some spots which, depending on the coral, could be too much for them.

Sorry you're having such a hard time.
Thanks for reading. I took that photo when the tips were freshly burnt. They are white when it first happens and look like just new growth, but in a day or two those white tips will be covered in brown algae. Definitely dead. It actually seems like when a coral tries to put out new growth, that is when the burning happens.

I have not yet checked for stray voltage but I will. Thanks
 
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kruler

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I believe you are doing everything correctly. Parameters, light, flow, "stable" parameters, and all that.

One question: did you begin with dead rock or live rock?

I think all you need to do is slightly adjust your expectations. Otherwise just keep doing what you are doing while your biome matures. While not visible to you, there is still a huge amount of change going in in your biome with different bacteria and microfauna battling it out.

At 9-10 months now, you are getting very close, so just hang on to stability.

If you started with dead rock, find some old live stuff and sump it. For an interesting discussion on this subject of biome maturity/diversity, you can thumb through this thread:


Thanks for the reply. I started with dry rock (caribsea liferock). I added a couple of pieces of live rock from established systems to my sump, which is where I believe the sponges and fan worms came from.
 

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Take time to enjoy the tank and not overthink or grow concerns. Take salinity to 1.025- otherwise all looks well.
What test kits are you using?
 
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kruler

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Take time to enjoy the tank and not overthink or grow concerns. Take salinity to 1.025- otherwise all looks well.
What test kits are you using?

I test Alk, Ca and Po4 with Hanna checkers, salinity with two sybon refractometers, Mg with Aquaforest and No3 with Nyos and Salifert. Ph and temp is from Apex.
 

Manny Tavan

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Had the same issue. Sps slowly dying unless I did weekly water changes. 25% each time. Phos was 0.03 but for some reason rowaphos made things better overnight. It must be pulling something else I think my caribsea life rock releases something. Even icp testing was normal. Nothing I tried worked.
 

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Multimeters are cheap, I would definitely check for voltage. In my experience in my SPS endeavors nitrates of 10 cause problems, die back for sure. Every tank is different, but I see a reduction in growth at around 5ppm in my SPS tank. I don't want to think what nitrates at 20 would cause. I would also rent a PAR meter again. There is also the possibility of STN. STN is just the symptom, there are many causes, not all of which are known, but I would go down that rabbit hole and see if your symptoms match. My number one recommendation is to get that Nitrate under 3ppm. On the long term that's going to mean less nitrogen being added to the tank(cut back on feeding) and trying to up your nutrient export, refugium/skimmer? ABS is considered reef safe and I do trust it. It will EVENTUALLY start tp degrade over time to O3 exposure, it doesn't last forever. But- I don't see it as being the cause. My thought went to other essential nutrients like Strontium, but with your big water changes of late, if you're still experiencing this, I don't think that is the cause. I would also really like to see the results of your ICP test.
 
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kruler

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Had the same issue. Sps slowly dying unless I did weekly water changes. 25% each time. Phos was 0.03 but for some reason rowaphos made things better overnight. It must be pulling something else I think my caribsea life rock releases something. Even icp testing was normal. Nothing I tried worked.

Are you saying Rowaphos fixed the issue?? I have also thought that the caribsea rock might be the culprit but tons of people seem to use it without issue.
 

ArielUnderwater

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Are you saying Rowaphos fixed the issue?? I have also thought that the caribsea rock might be the culprit but tons of people seem to use it without issue.
Rowaphos removes phosphates, silicates, and arsenic. If you sent off an ICP test, you should know if those numbers are elevated.
 

vetteguy53081

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I test Alk, Ca and Po4 with Hanna checkers, salinity with two sybon refractometers, Mg with Aquaforest and No3 with Nyos and Salifert. Ph and temp is from Apex.
Are you saying Rowaphos fixed the issue?? I have also thought that the caribsea rock might be the culprit but tons of people seem to use it without issue.
Rowaphos has toxin removers and GFO which will control excess phos and nitrates
 

vetteguy53081

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I test Alk, Ca and Po4 with Hanna checkers, salinity with two sybon refractometers, Mg with Aquaforest and No3 with Nyos and Salifert. Ph and temp is from Apex.
Good for you. Alas, someone that does not use an API test kit, ;)
 

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If it is something in the water have you tried to run a poly filter?

I had a similar experience with all sps for a while one thing I found was my PAR was lower than I thought. I would also try increasing the flow. I was running my 2 MPs at 40% on each side of the tank in reefcrest mode. I’m now running them on the back wall 100% Tidal Swell mode. Once I upped my lights, I’m getting between 230-300 par across my entire rock scape, and increased flow my issues seemed to have disappeared.
 
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kruler

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When the issue started, I ran carbon and purigen. I am now running chemipure blue. The ICP from November showed zero arsenic, 0.04 phosphate and 1.18ppm silicon.

If I try Rowaphos, should I remove the chemipure or can they be used in conjunction?
 

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When the issue started, I ran carbon and purigen. I am now running chemipure blue. The ICP from November showed zero arsenic, 0.04 phosphate and 1.18ppm silicon.

If I try Rowaphos, should I remove the chemipure or can they be used in conjunction?
They can be used in conjuction.. but I wouldn't run Rowaphos and chemipure elite, just chemipure blue. I would never recommend running two phosphate removers at the same time, and I believe the elite has GFO.
 

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When the issue started, I ran carbon and purigen. I am now running chemipure blue. The ICP from November showed zero arsenic, 0.04 phosphate and 1.18ppm silicon.

If I try Rowaphos, should I remove the chemipure or can they be used in conjunction?

They can be used in conjuction.. but I wouldn't run Rowaphos and chemipure elite, just chemipure blue. I would never recommend running two phosphate removers at the same time, and I believe the elite has GFO.
PO4 is not your problem. I beg you to believe this is not your problem. (As an aside, your Hanna measure is better than you ICP for PO4.) When your PO4 starts bumping .25 then get it down a little over time.

All that said, @ArielUnderwater is correct about GFO in Blue versus Elite. Running Elite and Rowa will kill the rest of your SPS and send you into the "Dinoflagellates - are you tired" thread where you do not wish to be.
 
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kruler

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PO4 is not your problem. I beg you to believe this is not your problem. (As an aside, your Hanna measure is better than you ICP for PO4.) When your PO4 starts bumping .25 then get it down a little over time.

All that said, @ArielUnderwater is correct about GFO in Blue versus Elite. Running Elite and Rowa will kill the rest of your SPS and send you into the "Dinoflagellates - are you tired" thread where you do not wish to be.

I do not think Po4 is the issue. But I was intrigued that @Manny Tavan had the same issues and suggested rowaphos helped maybe by removing something that didn’t show up on ICP. It would be great if he could confirm that solved his problem.

To clarify, I am running Chemipure Blue, not elite.
 

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I do not think Po4 is the issue. But I was intrigued that @Manny Tavan had the same issues and suggested rowaphos helped maybe by removing something that didn’t show up on ICP. It would be great if he could confirm that solved his problem.

To clarify, I am running Chemipure Blue, not elite.
Thanks for the clarification. I once used some GFO to bring down aluminum; I think it worked. Just make sure some PO4 is always available.

I replace my Polyfilter on a pretty regular basis. Maybe it helps, I dunno.
 

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