Need help identifying these dots

[AntLikesFish]

Hi everyone, I would really like help identifying these dots on the clown here. I also notice the clown breathing heavily. I have only had these clowns for two days, I got them from a LFS. I’m looking into getting a hospital tank later today. These two clowns are also the only fish in the tank, as the tank was fallow for 3 months prior to their arrival. Any help, advice or suggestions would be really appreciated. I also already have metroplex and focus, but these clowns haven’t been eating.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone, I would really like help identifying these dots on the clown here. I also notice the clown breathing heavily. I have only had these clowns for two days, I got them from a LFS. I’m looking into getting a hospital tank later today. These two clowns are also the only fish in the tank, as the tank was fallow for 3 months prior to their arrival. Any help, advice or suggestions would be really appreciated. I also already have metroplex and focus, but these clowns haven’t been eating.

Please pics under white lighting as it is impossible to see under heavy blue light. Preliminarily, it looks like Brooklynella but need to confirm as brook and ich have two different treatment protocols.

 

[AntLikesFish]

I will take pics with white light as soon as possible, thank you!

 

[MnFish1]

There are some guidelines to use when asking questions in my signature - that might help us help you better - starting (as @vetteguy53081 said) - with better pictures - so appreciate that you're going to do that.

What other fish are in the tank? Were they sourced directly from the breeder - or in an LFS with other fish (the reason I ask - if they are tank bred and raised - brooklynella would be less likely IMHO) - But - parameters, and much more history is needed.

Just an aside for the other fish medics. @Jay Hemdal - do we think the incidence of brooklynella in clowns is higher now that so many have not been exposed to it in the wild? Or is it being over-diagnosed?

 

[vetteguy53081]

There are some guidelines to use when asking questions in my signature - that might help us help you better - starting (as @vetteguy53081 said) - with better pictures - so appreciate that you're going to do that.

What other fish are in the tank? Were they sourced directly from the breeder - or in an LFS with other fish (the reason I ask - if they are tank bred and raised - brooklynella would be less likely IMHO) - But - parameters, and much more history is needed.

Just an aside for the other fish medics. @Jay Hemdal - do we think the incidence of brooklynella in clowns is higher now that so many have not been exposed to it in the wild? Or is it being over-diagnosed?

Shipping delays with transcient ( airline delays/cancellations the last 5 weeks) have imposed stress on these fish as well as what I believe is overbreeding to get cash flow

 

[MnFish1]

Shipping delays with transcient ( airline delays/cancellations the last 5 weeks) have imposed stress on these fish as well as what I believe is overbreeding to get cash flow

I guess my question was - if there is no brooklynella in the tank - and the fish are 'tank bred' - where is the brooklynella coming from? AND - do we think that the fact that their immune systems are not exposed to brooklynella is playing a role.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I guess my question was - if there is no brooklynella in the tank - and the fish are 'tank bred' - where is the brooklynella coming from? AND - do we think that the fact that their immune systems are not exposed to brooklynella is playing a role.

Contaminated water at LFS and wholesalers as well as compromised immune systems from stress

 

[AntLikesFish]

Please pics under white lighting as it is impossible to see under heavy blue light. Preliminarily, it looks like Brooklynella but need to confirm as brook and ich have two different treatment protocols.

I was able to get a couple of pics in white light, however in this lighting, it is much less prevalent

 

[AntLikesFish]

Please pics under white lighting as it is impossible to see under heavy blue light. Preliminarily, it looks like Brooklynella but need to confirm as brook and ich have two different treatment protocols.

I was just now able to get some more pictures, however in the white light these dots appear much less noticeable.

 

[AntLikesFish]

There are some guidelines to use when asking questions in my signature - that might help us help you better - starting (as @vetteguy53081 said) - with better pictures - so appreciate that you're going to do that.

What other fish are in the tank? Were they sourced directly from the breeder - or in an LFS with other fish (the reason I ask - if they are tank bred and raised - brooklynella would be less likely IMHO) - But - parameters, and much more history is needed.

Just an aside for the other fish medics. @Jay Hemdal - do we think the incidence of brooklynella in clowns is higher now that so many have not been exposed to it in the wild? Or is it being over-diagnosed?

So there are no other fishes in this tank, and I got them from a LFS. The man who sold them to me got them from their display tank, told me they were already a pair and that they were raised in store. This tank has previously had fish, however these fish got brook and I left the tank fallow for over three months. I was told to leave it fallow for six weeks, I left it fallow for more than 7 weeks.

The parameters are
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 15 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
pH - 7.9
Alkalinity - ~300 ppm

 

[AntLikesFish]

Another thing I just noticed is that the smaller clown (the one who doesn’t have dots) has a cloudy eye.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Another thing I just noticed is that the smaller clown (the one who doesn’t have dots) has a cloudy eye.

looks like brook and can accelerate into a bacterial eye . If one eye is cloudy, may be an injury or excess mucus which starts at face. If I see correctly- your fish has secondary infections which stem from long term brook exposure.
The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish and looks like a discoloration of its normal colors. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials

 

[exnisstech]

So there are no other fishes in this tank, and I got them from a LFS. The man who sold them to me got them from their display tank, told me they were already a pair and that they were raised in store. This tank has previously had fish, however these fish got brook and I left the tank fallow for over three months. I was told to leave it fallow for six weeks, I left it fallow for more than 7 weeks.

The parameters are
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 15 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
pH - 7.9
Alkalinity - ~300 ppm

Kind of defeats the whole purpose of going fallow if you are introducing new fish without putting them through QT IMO

 

[MnFish1]

Contaminated water at LFS and wholesalers as well as compromised immune systems from stress

Not sure this is likely. The tank raised fish have no immune reactivity to brook. How were they exposed to Brook in the first place (I think I also mentioned - if they were not exposed at the LFS)

 

[MnFish1]

So there are no other fishes in this tank, and I got them from a LFS. The man who sold them to me got them from their display tank, told me they were already a pair and that they were raised in store. This tank has previously had fish, however these fish got brook and I left the tank fallow for over three months. I was told to leave it fallow for six weeks, I left it fallow for more than 7 weeks.

The parameters are
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 15 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
pH - 7.9
Alkalinity - ~300 ppm

Your response does not make complete sense to me. But - it leads me against the diagnosis of Brook

 

[MnFish1]

I see nothing that looks like Brook. I would tend to treat with antibiotics. JMHO - will let the rest discuss it @Jay Hemdal

 

[MnFish1]

IE - the spots you're showing do not look like Brook - to me.... JMO

 

[MnFish1]

Shipping delays with transcient ( airline delays/cancellations the last 5 weeks) have imposed stress on these fish as well as what I believe is overbreeding to get cash flow

So there were no shipping delays - he got them from an LFS. If the LFS is 12 hours away - perhaps - there was stress. The spots your'e concentrating on do not look like brook to me. Can you please answer the rest of the questions in the link?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi folks, I was at work again today, so just seeing this now.

Rapid breathing and not eating in both fish (if I read things correctly) is going to point to three possible issues:

1) Water quality problems
2) Velvet
3) Brooklynella

I *think* we can rule out acute bacterial infection because the fish are so new. The cloudy eye does help with that diagnosis though.

Your water report seems fine, so unless there is an unknown toxin, that likely is not the problem.
Brook and velvet can be hard to tell apart, and since they have two different treatment, it is imperative that you go in the right direction.

Can you post a short video? I might be able to tell more from that.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

So there are no other fishes in this tank, and I got them from a LFS. The man who sold them to me got them from their display tank, told me they were already a pair and that they were raised in store. This tank has previously had fish, however these fish got brook and I left the tank fallow for over three months. I was told to leave it fallow for six weeks, I left it fallow for more than 7 weeks.

The parameters are
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 15 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
pH - 7.9
Alkalinity - ~300 ppm

I do not see Brook here. Will await @Jay Hemdal