Need help lowering nitrates

[Biff0rz]

I've been struggling to lower my nitrates for over 3 weeks now. I'm not chasing numbers, some, not all, of my corals look ticked off. For example, a pretty easy sps Monti started to bleach on top while other acros have thrived. Dkh has been consistent - I have an alkatronic and test every 4 hours. I've lost a couple of turbo snails from lack of algea (they die, add trates, I remove them). Since the losses of the snails I've turned off the UV for now to let some growth come back.

No3 is consistently at 25ppm with the nyos test kit. Po4 is at 0.13 which I've been slowly dropping with gfo. All other params are nominal -
SG 35ppt
Dkh 8
Ca/mg: 450/1350

For filtration I have a roller filter and skimmer. The tank is 8mo old and past most of the uglies. I have a healthy pod population and Coraline algea is finally showing up. I have a fuge with chaeto growing nice and green (20h photo period).

Things I've tried:
Vacuuming sand bed
Blowing rocks
Cleaning sump
Wet and dry skimming
Dosing microbacter 7
Water changes (large and small awc)
I've reduced feeding - no, like really reduced. I've cut feedings in half AND I now use a food scale to weigh out the frozen food.

I feed 8g (~4 cubes) a day. I feed 1/2 sheet of nori every other day.

Fish:
Blue throat trigger (3")
Yellow tang (3")
Purple tang (4")
Blonde naso (4.5")
Leopard wrasse (3")
Clown (1")
Mandarin (1.5")
Blue face angel juv (1.5")
Potters angel (1.5")
Copperband butterfly (4")

Cuc:
Cerith x 50
Nassarius x 50
Astraea x 25
Nerite x 25
Margarit e x 25
Plus another 15+ Mexican turbos.
1 emerald
Lots of pods

Ideas?

 

[Jekyl]

More CuC will help. Get the 100g package from reefcleaners.org for more diversity and cheaper than LFS. Nitrate at 25 isn't that bad. I keep mine between 10 and 20. NoPox may also be beneficial. Other than that you could let the chaeto grow a little larger. More chaeto means more nutrients consumed. Or even increase the light schedule for it.

 

[Biff0rz]

More CuC will help. Get the 100g package from reefcleaners.org for more diversity and cheaper than LFS. Nitrate at 25 isn't that bad. I keep mine between 10 and 20. NoPox may also be beneficial. Other than that you could let the chaeto grow a little larger. More chaeto means more nutrients consumed. Or even increase the light schedule for it.

Sorry, this is the Cuc pack I got from Dr reef, I was just typing fast.
Cerith x 50
Nassarius x 50
Astraea x 25
Nerite x 25
Margarit e x 25
Plus another 15+ Mexican turbos.

I have yet to trim the chaeto and it's light is on 20h/day (sorry, said 16, meant 20).

 

[PeterC99]

Have you tried a refugium with chaeto? Took my high nitrates & phosphates to almost zero.

 

[Biff0rz]

Have you tried a refugium with chaeto? Took my high nitrates & phosphates to almost zero.

Yes:
"I have a fuge with chaeto growing nice and green (20h photo period)."

 

[Azedenkae]

I'd suggest removing the gfo, so you can increase phosphates. After all, your algae and stuff needs to consume both nitrates and phosphates, and perhaps the issue may simply just be that organisms in your tank wants to consume the nitrate, but don't have enough phosphates to do so.

 

[Biff0rz]

I'd suggest removing the gfo, so you can increase phosphates. After all, your algae and stuff needs to consume both nitrates and phosphates, and perhaps the issue may simply just be that organisms in your tank wants to consume the nitrate, but don't have enough phosphates to do so.

Man, I feel like I can't win lol. My po4 was around 0.23 before dropping it. I feel like raising it will tick off other corals blah.

 

[Azedenkae]

Man, I feel like I can't win lol. My po4 was around 0.23 before dropping it. I feel like raising it will tick off other corals blah.

Were the corals doing badly back then too?

 

[C. Eymann]

Nitrates are only at 25ppm? P is at .13?

I wouldn't be looking at those being the culprit behind montis bleaching on top and some corals looking a bit stressed, esp if you have acropora thriving.

Made any changes with lighting? How are you monitoring temperature? if its via a controller
when was it last referenced/ calibrated with a different device?

Are you sure those montis aren't actually being munched by a pest?

 

[Biff0rz]

Nitrates are only at 25ppm? P is at .13?

I wouldn't be looking at those being the culprit behind montis bleaching on top and some corals looking a bit stressed, esp if you have acropora thriving.

Made any changes with lighting? How are you monitoring temperature? if its via a controller
when was it last referenced/ calibrated with a different device?

Are you sure those montis aren't actually being munched by a pest?

Lighting has remained the same. I was going to switch my leds to a reefbreeders photon v2 50 but since I've been having some issues I've held off. Temp is monitored a few ways - apex which is somewhat accurate. Another is a bayite temp controller. It holds it between 78/78.2 consistently. Then I randomly check with my Hanna handheld. I'm highly confident temp does not go above 79*f with all lights on etc. Nor does it fall below 78f.

The pest thing has me wondering - how can I check? I watch during the day and night and haven't seen anything. All corals went through coral qt process too.

Were the corals doing badly back then too?

Others were, I lost a two acros. I assumed it was the high po4 and took action. The Monti is a WWC grafted Monti. It got pale on top (200 par, good flow) then continued to get more white. I since removed it and placed it back into coral qt - the edges are recovering. I have a red Monti thriving on the other side of the tank, same par, similar flow.

 

[blasterman]

My best trick for lowering nitrates:

Get a jar of bio pellets and fill a media bag with them. Cost about $20. Throw it in your sump in a high flow area. Forget about it.

Takes a couple weeks, but as bacteria colonize on the biopellets they chew up nitrate. After a month they are at full speed. My personal experience is they work better than chaeto. Just watch out they dont bottom out nitrate.

Bio pellets don't need a reactor, which is just a plastic cylinder. Just be put in a high flow area in your water.

 

[Azedenkae]

Lighting has remained the same. I was going to switch my leds to a reefbreeders photon v2 50 but since I've been having some issues I've held off. Temp is monitored a few ways - apex which is somewhat accurate. Another is a bayite temp controller. It holds it between 78/78.2 consistently. Then I randomly check with my Hanna handheld. I'm highly confident temp does not go above 79*f with all lights on etc. Nor does it fall below 78f.

The pest thing has me wondering - how can I check? I watch during the day and night and haven't seen anything. All corals went through coral qt process too.


Others were, I lost a two acros. I assumed it was the high po4 and took action. The Monti is a WWC grafted Monti. It got pale on top (200 par, good flow) then continued to get more white. I since removed it and placed it back into coral qt - the edges are recovering. I have a red Monti thriving on the other side of the tank, same par, similar flow.

I see. Honestly beats me. If there was a shift towards better health given the lowering of phosphates, then that's probably not exactly going to be a contributing factor, though I kinda wonder if nitrates may have been different before as well. Could be other factors too, like lighting, but at this point this is beyond me, so apologies. D:

 

[tnw50cal]

I since removed it and placed it back into coral qt - the edges are recovering. I have a red Monti thriving on the other side of the tank, same par, similar flow.

And what's the N & P in that tank?

 

[sdreef]

It looks like you're employing a lot of good methods for nutrient export. One thing to look at is nutrient import.
I started my tank back in November, and something that's been helpful has been how I prepare the frozen food and freeze dried food that I'm feeding. For the frozen food, I now melt it in RO water in advance and then rinse the food through a brine shrimp net prior to feeding the tank. The fish are getting the same amount of food, but the water is pretty cloudy before I rinse it out, and I'm no longer adding this to the tank. I also use freeze dried food via the plank and have also started sifting the food before loading the feeder.

I was having cyano issues early on with my set up and this has resolved. These minor adjustments in how I prepare the food really helped me reduce the nutrient import without adjusting the frequency or quantity of food for the fish and I've found it beneficial for the system.

Here's the turbid water after thawing. No longer adding this to the tank.

Freeze dried food for the plank. Fine particles on left are now discarded.

 

[Dan_P]

I've been struggling to lower my nitrates for over 3 weeks now. I'm not chasing numbers, some, not all, of my corals look ticked off. For example, a pretty easy sps Monti started to bleach on top while other acros have thrived. Dkh has been consistent - I have an alkatronic and test every 4 hours. I've lost a couple of turbo snails from lack of algea (they die, add trates, I remove them). Since the losses of the snails I've turned off the UV for now to let some growth come back.

No3 is consistently at 25ppm with the nyos test kit. Po4 is at 0.13 which I've been slowly dropping with gfo. All other params are nominal -
SG 35ppt
Dkh 8
Ca/mg: 450/1350

For filtration I have a roller filter and skimmer. The tank is 8mo old and past most of the uglies. I have a healthy pod population and Coraline algea is finally showing up. I have a fuge with chaeto growing nice and green (20h photo period).

Things I've tried:
Vacuuming sand bed
Blowing rocks
Cleaning sump
Wet and dry skimming
Dosing microbacter 7
Water changes (large and small awc)
I've reduced feeding - no, like really reduced. I've cut feedings in half AND I now use a food scale to weigh out the frozen food.

I feed 8g (~4 cubes) a day. I feed 1/2 sheet of nori every other day.

Fish:
Blue throat trigger (3")
Yellow tang (3")
Purple tang (4")
Blonde naso (4.5")
Leopard wrasse (3")
Clown (1")
Mandarin (1.5")
Blue face angel juv (1.5")
Potters angel (1.5")
Copperband butterfly (4")

Cuc:
Cerith x 50
Nassarius x 50
Astraea x 25
Nerite x 25
Margarit e x 25
Plus another 15+ Mexican turbos.
1 emerald
Lots of pods

Ideas?

I would turn this investigation into why the corals look ”ticked off”. Are hou sure 25 ppm NO3 is the reason?

As for the nitrate level, it just means the amount of nitrogen in is in excess of nitrogen being converted to biomass and N2. Good choices include dosing vodka or vinegar, growing macro algae, or using a sulfur denitrator. The order of this list also represents increasing cost and complexity. A highly recommended practice with a dubious track record is adding bottled bacteria. Water changes are not a long term fix nor is adding a clean up crew.

 

[arking_mark]

I've had bleaching and RTN/STN issues with my 6month old tank. I chased down NO3/PO4 "issues" only find that these weren't the cause. In fact, I think the issues were more related to light, flow, and to some extent the need for heavier feeding.

 

[Biff0rz]

I would turn this investigation into why the corals look ”ticked off”. Are hou sure 25 ppm NO3 is the reason?

I agree, and nope, just a pure guess.

As for the nitrate level, it just means the amount of nitrogen in is in excess of nitrogen being converted to biomass and N2. Good choices include dosing vodka or vinegar, growing macro algae, or using a sulfur denitrator. The order of this list also represents increasing cost and complexity. A highly recommended practice with a dubious track record is adding bottled bacteria. Water changes are not a long term fix nor is adding a clean up crew.

I'm growing macro and I've been adding MB7 for a week now, they arent coming down too much. I did start skimming more aggressively.

I've had bleaching and RTN/STN issues with my 6month old tank. I chased down NO3/PO4 "issues" only find that these weren't the cause. In fact, I think the issues were more related to light, flow, and to some extent the need for heavier feeding.

I tested par near each SPS, all were 200+ (using a seneye). I have tried moving them around a little to see how they'd react...nothing good. I also had one purple digi that I cut up into 4 different frags. I placed that in 4 different spots in the tank (diff flow, light, etc) and none of them have been very happy. I'm going to keep trying tho..

 

[Dan_P]

I agree, and nope, just a pure guess.


I'm growing macro and I've been adding MB7 for a week now, they arent coming down too much. I did start skimming more aggressively.


I tested par near each SPS, all were 200+ (using a seneye). I have tried moving them around a little to see how they'd react...nothing good. I also had one purple digi that I cut up into 4 different frags. I placed that in 4 different spots in the tank (diff flow, light, etc) and none of them have been very happy. I'm going to keep trying tho..

The question is how fast is the macro algae growing. If the mass is not increasing, nitrate level will not decrease. If you are harvesting the algae like mad, there is not enough macro algae.

There is another possibility. If the macro algae has grown well and stopped even with plenty of phosphate and nitrate, that might be a sign the algae has stripped the water of micro nutrients. This might account for the coral upset. Just a thought though.

 

[M Stein]

What kind of light are you using to grow chaeto? If it's a cheap gro-light from the gardening store, it may not be able to grow chaeto fast enough to make a difference.

 

[Dan_P]

What kind of light are you using to grow chaeto? If it's a cheap gro-light from the gardening store, it may not be able to grow chaeto fast enough to make a difference.

Totally agree on the growth rate notion.

I use a regular 5500K LED spotlight to illuminate Ulva and that is enough for rapid growth. It filled up a kitty litter bucket rapidly, along with making NO3 and PO4 undetectable. I had a small powerhead in the bucket to keep the Ulva tumbling. This minimized self shading and stagnant water (High O2, low CO2).

A note on Chaeto. There are two types being sold and they do not grow exactly the same.