Need Help w/clownfish symptoms

[Todd A.]

I really need some advise on an issue. I'll apologize in advance for being long-winded, but I'm trying to provide as much info as possible. I'm new to the hobby and have a 90 tank w/live sand (80lbs) and rock (nearly 100lbs) with 2 clowns (Black Ice & Fancy White Occ.), a Blue Spot Toby, a Flame Angel and 5 Firefish. (CUC, Kenya Tree and some Zoas as well). The tank is six months old with the fish occupying it starting around 4 months ago (starting with the 2 clowns), with the last Firefish coming in about 2 months ago. Did not have a QT at the time, but have one prepped and ready to go now. Anyways, 9 days ago I noticed the Black Ice clown (Oreo) had started swimming in the flow of my circulators. Please note both my clowns have always acted "strange" in my opinion, just based on my experience with other clowns at a workplace DT and general reading. They have always tended to swim at the top, never really swim into the rocks or caves and "sleep" almost on the surface, on their sides. First few days I thought there was something wrong, but it's just seems to be what they like doing. Other than that, they have always appeared to be happy and healthy, eating and otherwise behaving normally. I've just chalked it up to being captive bred. Back to the issue. I had remembered reading that swimming in the flow was a symptom of some disease or parasite, so I immediately ran out to my local LFS to get some advise. And although they have always seemed very knowledgeable, they really didn't have an answer. I was told it might be a swim bladder infection and to limit the food to Spirulina for a few days and to come back if there were additional symptoms. So that's what I did and although Oreo continued to spend much of her day in the flow, she still aggressively ate and would swim around the rest of the tank at times. By day two I located the thread on R2R that described the symptom as velvet. At that point I freaked, but also wanted to avoid a knee jerk reaction that might do more harm than good, so I just continued to look for additional symptoms, in Oreo or any of the other fish. I had read it's better not to treat unless you absolutely sure treating is necessary. So it's day 9, Oreo still is swimming in the flow, but not as much and none of the fish show any other signs of sickness. They all act and appear to perfectly fine. The only ill side effect was that my Toby started nipping at the other fish's fins, I assume do to the fact he was on a vegan diet for 4 -5 days. And maybe I'm way off base, but if my DT does have velvet, wouldn't I have seen other symptoms by now??? So that's where I'm at. No idea of how to handle this situation, or if it's a situation at all. Any advise will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Humblefish]

TR clownfish do act "strange" sometimes and also probably don't have as robust an immune system as their wild caught counterparts. So, I could see a milder disease, such as ich or flukes, causing them to swim into the flow of a powerhead. In order to seek relief for their gills. You said the last fish was added 2 months ago, but have you added any corals/inverts more recently?

 

[Todd A.]

Yes, the Zoas were added in about a month ago. And I had recently asked R2R members about QT'ing inverts & corals, as I had really never seen it addressed. But now I know. And as far as a "milder" disease, I just haven't seen any "exterior" signs of parasites nor are any of the fish behaving differently. Any idea on how I should react? Sit and wait, or treat (& treat for what)?

 

[Humblefish]

Yes, the Zoas were added in about a month ago. And I had recently asked R2R members about QT'ing inverts & corals, as I had really never seen it addressed. But now I know. And as far as a "milder" disease, I just haven't seen any "exterior" signs of parasites nor are any of the fish behaving differently. Any idea on how I should react? Sit and wait, or treat (& treat for what)?

I would just sit tight for now, until more fish show symptoms of a disease (if that happens). Did the zoas come on a plug? Most parasites have a tomont (egg) stage which can encyst to just about any hard surface.

 

[Todd A.]

They are attached to a small piece of live rock, 2"x3". More than enough room to house thousands of tomonts I'm sure.
Any idea of how long I need to hold my breath? Not knowing one way or another is the worst feeling ever.
And on a totally irrelevant side note; how do you paste a section of a previous thread comment into a reply like you've done above. I just can't seem to figure it out for some reason.
Thanks again.

 

[Brew12]

how do you paste a section of a previous thread comment into a reply

haha! I know an answer to a question asked to Humblefish! I rock! :D

Highlight the text you want to copy with your mouse. You should see Quote+/Reply pop up next to the highlighted text. If you select Reply, it will copy that section into a new post for you. If you select Quote+ you can highlight additional sections from multiple posts. When you are ready to use them select Insert Quotes from the button under the face icons.

 

[Todd A.]

You should see Quote+/Reply pop up next to the highlighted text. If you select Reply, it will copy that section into a new post for you. If you select Quote+ you can highlight additional sections from multiple posts. When you are ready to use them select Insert Quotes from the button under the face icons

Thanks, it always helps to be smarter than your opponent.

 

[Brew12]

Thanks, it always helps to be smarter than your opponent.

I wonder if that is why I always lose...... :confused:

 

[Humblefish]

Any idea of how long I need to hold my breath?

Unfortunately, the answer to that depends greatly upon which disease (if any) the clownfish have.

 

[Pugfishluv3]

Have you considered a freshwater dip?

 

[Humblefish]

Have you considered a freshwater dip?

^^ This would confirm/rule out the presence of gill flukes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

 

[Purpletank]

Just to add a note. My clowns would swim upstream in the current every evening before bedtime in my 14g bio cube. I never saw any outward signs of anything, no spots, not heavy breathing, so I never treated them. Eventually they quit doing that except on occasion. They were moved to a 38g tank with higher flow and seem perfectly healthy there as well. They "play" in the flow on occasion but not on a regular basis.

 

[Todd A.]

Thanks for info. And just to update, it's been 17 days since I noticed the "suspect" behavior and still have no other symptoms of disease or parasite. The clown just seems to prefer swimming in the current, but not all the time. Otherwise seems perfectly healthy, as do the other 8 fish. It seems that some other symptoms would have shown themselves by now if there was a problem. The only other thing I can think of is elevated salt levels. All of my water conditions are spot on, but when I first started the tank 6+ months ago, I had my salinity at 1.022 - 023 based on the recommendations on the salt mix bucket. But after reading R2R and other misc. research I noticed that the general consensus was to keep it closer to 1.026, which is where I raised it to. But it's not like I did it overnight. I raised it up with three 20% water changes over a two week period. Any chance this could have had an ill effect on the clown?

 

[Todd A.]

Day 30 and my clown slowing stopped swimming in the flow on a regular basis and is now back to behaving as it did prior to this whole situation. I don't know if I should be relieved or concerned, as it is clear that it was definitely sick to some extent and just recovered on its own. Is there any chance that my tank is infected with some sort of parasite and all the fish have just developed some sort of resistance or immunity? I had planned to add one more fish to the tank but I'm concerned that even though I QT the new fish to protect my DT from whatever diseases the new fish may have, what if I end up infecting the new fish instead, or causing an outbreak? Is it even possible to have a tank full of fish all resistant and/or immune to the same disease?

 

[Humblefish]

Is there any chance that my tank is infected with some sort of parasite and all the fish have just developed some sort of resistance or immunity? I had planned to add one more fish to the tank but I'm concerned that even though I QT the new fish to protect my DT from whatever diseases the new fish may have, what if I end up infecting the new fish instead, or causing an outbreak? Is it even possible to have a tank full of fish all resistant and/or immune to the same disease?

It's very possible, but the details of resistance/immunity are not well understood. You'll find more information and cited studies on the subject here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/protective-immunity-against-cryptocaryon-irritans.240367/

Based purely upon anecdotal evidence, I've found that certain fish (usually hardy species such as clownfish) are capable of developing resistance/immunity if exposed to a parasite long enough and they don't succumb to it. Problem is they seem to be carriers from this point on, and if a new fish is added without the same resistance/immunity he may or may not die from whatever disease the immune fish is carrying.