need help with possible clownfish disease

[Herbie's Reef]

Hi, I just recently purchased a pair of Wyoming White clownfish and they have been in quarantine with copper and nitrofurazone. Today is the 6th day and I noticed a long white string hanging from one of the cowfishes belly along with irregular swimming patterns and a damaged back fin. I am having a hard time getting photos of the long white thing but you can briefly see it in some of the videos below.

I also have a few photos below and in the first one you can see the small bit of damage to the clear part of its rear fin.

I have also been administering a 100% water change every 3 days in the QT. If I need to switch medications to treat this I am currently using copper and nitrofurazone and have prazi pro, metro, and formalin available to use.

 

[Herbie's Reef]

also for anyone wondering the clowns are in a 20 gallon long QT tank with a long nose hawkfish. They have been getting fed with TDO pellets 2 times a day and frozen Mysis every other day. The copper is at 2.5ppm, nitrofurazone was dosed at 400mg for the 20 gallons, and salinity is at 1.025 SG. I also have a sponge filter and a small powerhead along with many PVC hides.

 

[sfin52]

It's possible internal parasites. Food soaked in Focus and metro should clear that up. The irregular swimming patterns possible flukes. Prazi will treat that. One treatment at a time. It's not recommended to do multiple treatments at the same time.

@Crabby48 @Lost in the Sauce

 

[fishyjoes]

noticed a long white string hanging from one of the cowfishes belly

They have been getting fed with TDO pellets 2 times a day and frozen Mysis every other day

Feeding mysis shrimp can lead to white poop, which looks like "white string hanging from the belly", which is also commonly seen when fish have internal parasites.
You might remove the mysis from the rotation for a few days and see if the white poop goes away.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, I just recently purchased a pair of Wyoming White clownfish and they have been in quarantine with copper and nitrofurazone. Today is the 6th day and I noticed a long white string hanging from one of the cowfishes belly along with irregular swimming patterns and a damaged back fin. I am having a hard time getting photos of the long white thing but you can briefly see it in some of the videos below.

I also have a few photos below and in the first one you can see the small bit of damage to the clear part of its rear fin.

I have also been administering a 100% water change every 3 days in the QT. If I need to switch medications to treat this I am currently using copper and nitrofurazone and have prazi pro, metro, and formalin available to use.

What I see is a very hyper but also possibly intimidated clown if other is picking on it which explains the tail issue.
The poop appearance is often assumed to be internal issues is not a parasite or internal issue based on uniform body and belly appearance of fish but is likely foods in fats that produce heavy mucus internally.
Simply change up diet a little adding flake, TDO small pellets, LRS fish frenzy and small plankton and no need to remove mysis- just mix it up
Using copper and changing water every three days has broken the cycle of copper use. Any reason youre changing water so frequently?
Are you testing copper and how?
Is it copper or copper safe?

 

[Crabby48]

wrong info

 

[Jay Hemdal]

White stringy poop can be common on new fish. I wait to see if it goes away. Also food can cause it. It it’s from something internal then I feed lrs soaked with general cure. Prazi and metro in one to clear up anything they may have. I tweet once or twice a day for 2 weeks. Use focus to bind the food.
1 table spoon food
1 scoop GC
1 scoop focus
Pinch of Epson salt if you have it
Few drops of selcon
Mix let sit 1/2 hour then feed. Freeze extra or fridge what you are using.
I tend to not use meds during copper.

Please don't have people use that recipe, the dose is incorrect. A "scoop" isn't a good unit of measure, so people will get that wrong from the start. Also, General Cure contains metronidazole and praziquantel, and the dose in that product is established for dosing water, not food. The proper dose for metronidazole is 0.5% in food daily for three treatments. Praziquantel is dosed differently - 50 mg/kg body weight every other day for three treatments. Epsom salts should be dosed at 3% in food, not a "pinch".

Here is an article on the proper dosing of medicated foods:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks,

Jay

 

[Crabby48]

Ok but the scoop comes with the product so can’t see how to get that wrong. But anyway I’ll leave it to you. I only posted because I was tag but would rather not help in fish disease here anyway.
thank you for the info

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, I just recently purchased a pair of Wyoming White clownfish and they have been in quarantine with copper and nitrofurazone. Today is the 6th day and I noticed a long white string hanging from one of the cowfishes belly along with irregular swimming patterns and a damaged back fin. I am having a hard time getting photos of the long white thing but you can briefly see it in some of the videos below.

I also have a few photos below and in the first one you can see the small bit of damage to the clear part of its rear fin.

I have also been administering a 100% water change every 3 days in the QT. If I need to switch medications to treat this I am currently using copper and nitrofurazone and have prazi pro, metro, and formalin available to use.

The clown seems pretty agitated. There is probably aggression with the other one, and that can be well-hidden, they will "play nice" when you are in the room watching them. Some people have had success by videoing the fish after you leave the room...any contact, or furtive rushes indicate aggression, which may settle down or could get worse.

I wouldn't treat with nitrofurazone unless you have a specific bacterial issue. I checked your dose and it is within the safe zone for that medication.

As far as the mucus feces go, nobody can tell you the cause unless you can look at it under a microscope and are able to see protozoans. Here is an excerpt from my article on mucus:

Excess mucus in fish feces[/B]: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.


Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok but the scoop comes with the product so can’t see how to get that wrong. But anyway I’ll leave it to you. I only posted because I was tag but would rather not help in fish disease here anyway.
thank you for the info

The scoop that comes with the Focus doesn't give good results, it is like measuring flour, it depends on if it is packed down on not. Oral meds have to be weighed on a good gram scale.

I've seen that recipe here before, and with its major flaws, I need to correct that when I see it.

Thanks,

Jay

 

[Herbie's Reef]

The clown seems pretty agitated. There is probably aggression with the other one, and that can be well-hidden, they will "play nice" when you are in the room watching them. Some people have had success by videoing the fish after you leave the room...any contact, or furtive rushes indicate aggression, which may settle down or could get worse.

I wouldn't treat with nitrofurazone unless you have a specific bacterial issue. I checked your dose and it is within the safe zone for that medication.

As far as the mucus feces go, nobody can tell you the cause unless you can look at it under a microscope and are able to see protozoans. Here is an excerpt from my article on mucus:

Excess mucus in fish feces[/B]: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.


Jay

I will 100% try and record them when I am out of the room. Typically they aren't really near each other and stay on opposite sides of the tank. I have never seen anything even close to aggression with them so I will try and record them for a while and see if I can get anything.

The reason I am treating with nitrofurazone is because I am following the BRS 80/20 QT method and I believe the idea behind it is that the copper stresses the fish and can make it more vulnerable to bacterial infections. So the nitrofurazone is there to prevent any possibility of a bacterial infection.

I may also try feeding some medicated food like metro if the white strings don't clear up after changing food. I will also try and feed a little heavier in case anorexia is the problem too.

I do have access to a microscope at my school but unfortunately there is no school for the next week so I don't think ill be able to look at it under one.

Thank you so much for your help!!

 

[Herbie's Reef]

What I see is a very hyper but also possibly intimidated clown if other is picking on it which explains the tail issue.
The poop appearance is often assumed to be internal issues is not a parasite or internal issue based on uniform body and belly appearance of fish but is likely foods in fats that produce heavy mucus internally.
Simply change up diet a little adding flake, TDO small pellets, LRS fish frenzy and small plankton and no need to remove mysis- just mix it up
Using copper and changing water every three days has broken the cycle of copper use. Any reason youre changing water so frequently?
Are you testing copper and how?
Is it copper or copper safe?

I am changing the water every three days as per recommended by the BRS 80/20 QT method. I am using copper power and mixing it in pre-mixed salt water before doing the water change. I am testing it with a hannah copper checker and typically get it just under 2.5 at about 2.3-2.4 just to be safe and because i don't have enough reagent to keep adjusting until I am at exactly 2.5ppm.

I will also make a trip to my LFS today and try to get a couple different foods in order to keep the diet varied.

Thank you so much for your advice!!

 

[Herbie's Reef]

Feeding mysis shrimp can lead to white poop, which looks like "white string hanging from the belly", which is also commonly seen when fish have internal parasites.
You might remove the mysis from the rotation for a few days and see if the white poop goes away.

I will do this for sure. I will feed some more varied foods without Mysis and see what happens for a little while.

Thank you!!

 

[Herbie's Reef]

It's possible internal parasites. Food soaked in Focus and metro should clear that up. The irregular swimming patterns possible flukes. Prazi will treat that. One treatment at a time. It's not recommended to do multiple treatments at the same time.

@Crabby48 @Lost in the Sauce

I will plan to feed metro if it does not clear up after changing the diet and will begin prazi pro in about a week and stop the copper just to stay on schedule with my QT. If signs of flukes does become concerning though I can start this sooner.

Thank You!!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I will 100% try and record them when I am out of the room. Typically they aren't really near each other and stay on opposite sides of the tank. I have never seen anything even close to aggression with them so I will try and record them for a while and see if I can get anything.

The reason I am treating with nitrofurazone is because I am following the BRS 80/20 QT method and I believe the idea behind it is that the copper stresses the fish and can make it more vulnerable to bacterial infections. So the nitrofurazone is there to prevent any possibility of a bacterial infection.

I may also try feeding some medicated food like metro if the white strings don't clear up after changing food. I will also try and feed a little heavier in case anorexia is the problem too.

I do have access to a microscope at my school but unfortunately there is no school for the next week so I don't think ill be able to look at it under one.

Thank you so much for your help!!

The trouble with indiscriminate antibiotic use is that it can build resistant bacteria. Nitrofurazone is not as bad as some others in that regard, but it is still an issue. For future reference, we keep our current quarantine protocol on the first page of this post:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

Jay