Need Help with Trident Alkalinity

[AKL1950]

This is getting to the point of being bazaar. My trident measures calcium and magnesium very close to where Salifert shows it. Calcium in Salifert 525 and trident within 25 of that. Salifert Mag is 1600 and trident is again plus or minus 25-50 points. However, the trident Alkalinity is all over the place, usually very low. I calibrated trident last week. Alter calibration, it said my alkalinity was 6.2 while Salifert and Hanna were 7.8 and 8.0. Today I just recalibrated trident this morning in the tank water using the numbers from the Salifert and Hanna tests. I used a Alk of 7.9. Figured that would make it show in line with the other two. Haha! Not so fast. Noon trident test came in at Ca 528, Mag at 1587, but Alk was 6.38 which is just stupid low.

Where do I look for answers? Could it be a crimped line to the alkalinity regent? I can’t think of what else to check.

 

[dadnjesse]

Mine does the same thing. I have posted about it in numerous Forums. The answer was just live with it, and look for changes within the numbers the trident gives.

 

[AKL1950]

Yeah, I can’t help but think that there is a kink in the regent line I’m just not seeing. Not sure about that, but it’s the only thing I can imagine would make the numbers come out like that. Seem though, if it’s getting too little regent for the amount of water, the number would be too high, not too low. But, mine keeps reading too low. If it were a kink in the water line, all three numbers should be off.

tomorrow I’m going to take the regent bottles out, make sure the lines are all straight and run a test like that. If it still comes up bad, as you say, 6.4 may be my new 8.0.

 

[Tcook]

Yeah, I can’t help but think that there is a kink in the regent line I’m just not seeing. Not sure about that, but it’s the only thing I can imagine would make the numbers come out like that. Seem though, if it’s getting too little regent for the amount of water, the number would be too high, not too low. But, mine keeps reading too low. If it were a kink in the water line, all three numbers should be off.

tomorrow I’m going to take the regent bottles out, make sure the lines are all straight and run a test like that. If it still comes up bad, as you say, 6.4 may be my new 8.0.

Maybe the electric pinch valve is not working. A member had a post selling extra pinch valves that he had. I thought this was odd but maybe they fail more often than you think.

 

[AKL1950]

Maybe the electric pinch valve is not working. A member had a post selling extra pinch valves that he had. I thought this was odd but maybe they fail more often than you think.

I’ll have to find a diagram to see where that is.

 

[Gophish1982]

This is getting to the point of being bazaar. My trident measures calcium and magnesium very close to where Salifert shows it. Calcium in Salifert 525 and trident within 25 of that. Salifert Mag is 1600 and trident is again plus or minus 25-50 points. However, the trident Alkalinity is all over the place, usually very low. I calibrated trident last week. Alter calibration, it said my alkalinity was 6.2 while Salifert and Hanna were 7.8 and 8.0. Today I just recalibrated trident this morning in the tank water using the numbers from the Salifert and Hanna tests. I used a Alk of 7.9. Figured that would make it show in line with the other two. Haha! Not so fast. Noon trident test came in at Ca 528, Mag at 1587, but Alk was 6.38 which is just stupid low.

Where do I look for answers? Could it be a crimped line to the alkalinity regent? I can’t think of what else to check.

I am having the exact same issue. I’ve been back and forth with support for weeks now. I know the trident is wrong. Hanna/salifert/aquaspin/icp tell me my Alk is in the mid 8s. Trident however tells me my Alk is in the low 7s. Typically it reads 1.4 lower then my Hanna and salifert tests which almost always match eachother.
Support has told me to run the unit with the drawer out. Make sure the solenoid (pinch valve) buttons don’t stick. They told me to mix up a batch of salt water, test it with my 3rd party tests and then let trident take sample from it for 48 hours. They said this was to rule out bubbles in the supply line, but I think secretly they expected my salt to mix way outside the manufacturer’s parameters. Guess what? Trident is still off. I mixed a batch of Red Sea blue bucket to exactly 35.5 (verified with a high precision hydrometer). Red Sea says their salt will be 7.8-8.2 at 35.5. Hanna read 8.4 salifert 8.3, so just above the window. Trident said 7.15.
Today I was on the phone with them and they told me to run another calibration with their solution, then test with my 3rd party tests and report back. Alk on the bottle was 8.45. Hanna and salifert both read it at 9.3. I just know they are going to tell me that their machine is right and the other test kits are wrong. But how is it that the trident tells me my 3rd party are 1.4 higher, but when I use their solution the 3rd party tests are only .85 higher? After this calibration with their own solution, my 3rd party tests are reading my tank water at 8.6, while trident is telling me 7.76. Maybe I would believe them if just one other trusted test came close to theirs, but I haven’t found one. I was told at one point today that precision is better then accuracy and I should be glad I’m getting consistent numbers (consistently inaccurate numbers). I think $600 should also buy me accuracy.

 

[am3gross]

I have found the calibration fluid for the trident to not be the best to use. I will do manual tests with salifert, while I am doing that I will do a manual test on the trident. I will compare the 2 numbers ( which usually are pretty close) but if they are not, I will re calibrate the trident with the manual salifert numbers and give it a few days to see if it comes back to where the salifert test say. Most of the time it is back to with in the range that I like.

Now if there is something wrong with the trident that might be something else. I have had my trident for 2 years now, I have had to clean the cuvette out once, and it really was not that dirty. Also, the black cover that is on the front, is that still on there? Do you have light that shines in to it? I have no first hand experience with the light interacting with the sample but have heard a few cases where it might.

And lastly, how old is the trident? Did you buy new or was it bought used? Might be time for the service Neptune offers.

Hope you find the solution to your problem.

Mike

 

[AKL1950]

I am having the exact same issue. I’ve been back and forth with support for weeks now. I know the trident is wrong. Hanna/salifert/aquaspin/icp tell me my Alk is in the mid 8s. Trident however tells me my Alk is in the low 7s. Typically it reads 1.4 lower then my Hanna and salifert tests which almost always match eachother.
Support has told me to run the unit with the drawer out. Make sure the solenoid (pinch valve) buttons don’t stick. They told me to mix up a batch of salt water, test it with my 3rd party tests and then let trident take sample from it for 48 hours. They said this was to rule out bubbles in the supply line, but I think secretly they expected my salt to mix way outside the manufacturer’s parameters. Guess what? Trident is still off. I mixed a batch of Red Sea blue bucket to exactly 35.5 (verified with a high precision hydrometer). Red Sea says their salt will be 7.8-8.2 at 35.5. Hanna read 8.4 salifert 8.3, so just above the window. Trident said 7.15.
Today I was on the phone with them and they told me to run another calibration with their solution, then test with my 3rd party tests and report back. Alk on the bottle was 8.45. Hanna and salifert both read it at 9.3. I just know they are going to tell me that their machine is right and the other test kits are wrong. But how is it that the trident tells me my 3rd party are 1.4 higher, but when I use their solution the 3rd party tests are only .85 higher? After this calibration with their own solution, my 3rd party tests are reading my tank water at 8.6, while trident is telling me 7.76. Maybe I would believe them if just one other trusted test came close to theirs, but I haven’t found one. I was told at one point today that precision is better then accuracy and I should be glad I’m getting consistent numbers (consistently inaccurate numbers). I think $600 should also buy me accuracy.

Thanks Gophish. your experience is exactly what I’m dealing with. When I first hooked it up 5 months ago, it was close to the others, but is dropping lower each time I recalibrate it. I’m almost positive it’s a relationship between how much water it draws and how much regent it uses. I have played around with doing miss match’s with Salifert/Hanna and can recreate the same weird numbers. I think it does the alkalinity test first, so it may be drawing an insufficient amount of water on its first pull which creates the miss match, but draws correctly when it does the Ca and Mag draws. I’ll keep working with it and report back if I find an good answer.

 

[Tcook]

Interesting observations. I wonder why Neptune isn't more on top of this. I believe mine reads low as well. As soon as I replace the Apex head unit that mo longer graphs I will run a few tests against Salifert. My Trident is only 2 months old.

 

[areefer01]

What results are you seeing when you remove the sample line from the display and run a manual combined test using their calibration solution (or Fauna Marin's)? Make sure to clean the sample line when moving from display to solution bottle (I do anyway using a soft towel and warm water).

Note: this isn't a calibration test but rather checking the trident to the calibration or reference solution. This way you remove the display and are using a "known" number. Below is a test I did using both Neptune and Fauna Marin's solutions:

Results:

Fauna Marine Multi Reference & Neptune Calibration: Image 1

Fauna Marin & Neptune test results using solutions: image 2

 

[Jimbo662]

Following...I'm dealing with calibration issues too. I did an exchange through the service program and the new unit isn't calibrating correctly. After two calls and taking the unit apart and checking to make sure the reagent supply line wasn't pinched or clogged they asked me to schedule a 3rd call when it's time to change out the reagents and run another calibration.

 

[Tcook]

Following...I'm dealing with calibration issues too. I did an exchange through the service program and the new unit isn't calibrating correctly. After two calls and taking the unit apart and checking to make sure the reagent supply line wasn't pinched or clogged they asked me to schedule a 3rd call when it's time to change out the reagents and run another calibration.

Post results in this thread after that call.

 

[AKL1950]

When I did the calibrations using the trident calibration solution, it recorded the exact numbers, but when it went back to normal test, it went back to 6.2 while Salifert and Hanna are both at 8.0. I would think that if there was a sample line issue, it would also give bad numbers for Ca and Mag, but they match up with Salifert. When I put the Salifert numbers in for the trident calibration (sample line in the sump) it recorded the numbers i put in. Next scheduled test, it went back to 6.2 Alk.

 

[areefer01]

When I did the calibrations using the trident calibration solution, it recorded the exact numbers, but when it went back to normal test, it went back to 6.2 while Salifert and Hanna are both at 8.0.

I don't know what reference solution you are using or how much of it is left. The most simple test you can do is use it and run a manual combined test and compare results. This checks the trident results to the bottle.

It sounds like you already calibrated it and it is running. Remove the Trident sample line, place in the reference solution, run combined test, compare. What are those numbers.

 

[Jimbo662]

When I did the calibrations using the trident calibration solution, it recorded the exact numbers, but when it went back to normal test, it went back to 6.2 while Salifert and Hanna are both at 8.0. I would think that if there was a sample line issue, it would also give bad numbers for Ca and Mag, but they match up with Salifert. When I put the Salifert numbers in for the trident calibration (sample line in the sump) it recorded the numbers i put in. Next scheduled test, it went back to 6.2 Alk.

This is the same issue I'm having.

 

[AKL1950]

I don't know what reference solution you are using or how much of it is left. The most simple test you can do is use it and run a manual combined test and compare results. This checks the trident results to the bottle.

It sounds like you already calibrated it and it is running. Remove the Trident sample line, place in the reference solution, run combined test, compare. What are those numbers.

Wish I could. I through away the trident calibration solution after I used it.

 

[am3gross]

What results are you seeing when you remove the sample line from the display and run a manual combined test using their calibration solution (or Fauna Marin's)? Make sure to clean the sample line when moving from display to solution bottle (I do anyway using a soft towel and warm water).

Note: this isn't a calibration test but rather checking the trident to the calibration or reference solution. This way you remove the display and are using a "known" number. Below is a test I did using both Neptune and Fauna Marin's solutions:

Results:

Fauna Marine Multi Reference & Neptune Calibration: Image 1

Fauna Marin & Neptune test results using solutions: image 2

I am curious if you checked the numbers on the bottles with your manual tests from salifert or another manual test? I have a few bottles in there (trident solution), Here in a few I will go sample them with the salifert tests and see how close to the bottle it is.

 

[areefer01]

I am curious if you checked the numbers on the bottles with your manual tests from salifert or another manual test? I have a few bottles in there (trident solution), Here in a few I will go sample them with the salifert tests and see how close to the bottle it is.

No, not something I typically do.

I save Neptune's calibration solution. As soon as I'm done using it I cap it and put a date on it. If I think something is up I can quickly bust it out and run a manual test for reference. Neptune says it is good for 8 hours after opening so I respect their information and so keep a Fauna Marin on hand. It is good for 6 months after opening according to them. I've verified this with them via email as well.

For me it makes sense to keep the reference solution and run a manual test if I think there is an issue. This way the path is clear. Reference bottle and trident. No other noise or interference.

 

[slythy]

I have been using the Trident calibration fairly blindly. I havent seen anything crazy other than I think my Calcium reports high.

What is the Ideal test kit for Alk, Cal, Mag? I can just calibrate it to my water given the test kit results which might be better.

 

[am3gross]

I know this thread is about a possible issue with the trident, my concern tho is I wonder IF there is actually a problem with the trident. I know the reagents have also been known to be off, I am going to test the cal fluid from Neptune and then I will run a manual test on the trident. I will do this after my 4pm eastern test, so look for results around say, 5pm eastern. I am now curious to see how close they are.