Need Help with Trident Alkalinity

[Gophish1982]

I have a

similar issue.
Trident running 1.0 dkh lower than salient consistent for months.
so I calibrated off those values with tank water. Cal shows the bump up but then on the next and subsequent tests it’s now showing a dkh of 6.86 when it was at 8 and salient is at 9.0.
Even recalibrated again and same results.

If you are telling the unit the value of the sample is 9.0 (tank water) then when it tests it should read 9.0 (or very close). Not read even lower than before.

Never changed a solution or moved the unit in the process.

Yeah. I have a call with them scheduled for Friday again. I finally switched all3 reagents for the first time and decided to calibrate with tank water again. I took a jar of water out. Tested it and both salifert and Hanna gave me 8.3. So I ran the calibration with tank water, then ran a combined test immediately after with out removing the supply line from the jar of water I had just calibrated with. Trident returned a result of 6.88dkh. I’m at my wits end with this thing. I’ve also noticed that it’s been making more noise then usual when testing.

I’m going to try to calibrate one more time with their solution that I test with Hanna first and input that number. I just don’t understand why it took the numbers I gave it when I used their solution, and it held. Albeit they were wrong numbers, but they held. When I calibrated with their solution the bottle read 8.45, Hanna/Salifert both read 9.3, but I used 8.45 from the bottle. After that calibration I didn’t run a test with the calibration fluid, I just put the supply line back in my tank, then used Hanna/Salifert to test my tank water. Trident read 0.85dkh lower then my other tests, which is exactly the amount that the calibration fluid tested at compared to my other tests.

So it seems when I calibrate with any other solution (in this case I have tried with Fauna Marin once and my own tank water twice) the trident will read 1.45-1.5dkh lower then the values I tell it.

When I speak with them again on Friday I’m going to mention to them that there are a handful of others that are experiencing this same defect, and it seems to be people who just bought their unit I’m the last few months (I got mine about 2.5 months ago when they were on sale at BRS)

 

[Gophish1982]

All I am suggesting is that you remove the extra noise and focus on what the Trident is giving you for results. Going back and forth between the Trident and third party test kits will drive you crazy. The test methodologies are different as is their margin of error. Also know reagents have a lot number of them. I'm not sure swapping them out will make a difference if they are the same but will defer to support as they know better.

Following the Neptune calibration task, proper placement, and what not:

• Calibrate using new reference solution
• Cap and save solution
• Move sample line to display
• Run manual combined test
• Note as display results
• Move sample line to saved solution
• Run prime sample line (not sure if this is needed but can't hurt)
• Run manual combined test
• Note as calibration solution results
• Compare results

This will basically give you two key data points. First is the Trident test results from your display. The second is the result from the calibration solution. This will also give you an indication if the reference/calibration solution is good. I recall one time when someone had a bad bottle (if the numbers are way off). Now if you want to run manual tests with other kits you can. Ideally you will want to repeat the steps above but replace Trident with kit (Hanna) for example.

I understand that not all test is going to be exactly the same. I would be alright if it was reading 0.1-0.3 off. But really who am I to believe? I test Alk with Hanna and Salifert. They both give me results typically with in .01 of eachother if not the same. I’ve had my water tested with Aquaspin and one LFS and RedSea at another and they both usually come back with in 0.3 of my test results with Hanna/Salifert. There is definitely something wrong with how this thing is calibrating. If I supply the trident with a sample (in the most recent case it was my tank water) and tell it the sample is 8.3, then run a test with the same solution immediately after, the trident should give me a result at or around 8.3. It is not though, it reads about 1.5dkh lower then what I tell it the sample is.

 

[Jimbo662]

I had my call with them on Monday. They had me run the calibration with a new bottle of solution then run a full set of tests on the solution prior to the call.
Solution: Alk 8.9, Cal 480, Mag 1368.
When the calibration finished the Trident showed Alk 7.78, Cal 350, Mag 1375.
I ran the full tests on the solution about 10 min later and Trident showed the numbers I had entered above for the calibration process.
He pulled reports or logs from the Trident and had their engineers look at it while I was on the phone. They said there was definitely an issue with the calibration process or calculations or something. He did a factory reset and asked me to do another calibration after several days and report the numbers back to him. I'll report back again in a day or two.

After calibrating I also ran a test on tank water.
Salifert / Hanna: Alk 8.9, Cal 430, Mag 1395
Trident: 7.95, Cal 474, Mag 1380

 

[Gatorpa]

Yeah. I have a call with them scheduled for Friday again. I finally switched all3 reagents for the first time and decided to calibrate with tank water again. I took a jar of water out. Tested it and both salifert and Hanna gave me 8.3. So I ran the calibration with tank water, then ran a combined test immediately after with out removing the supply line from the jar of water I had just calibrated with. Trident returned a result of 6.88dkh. I’m at my wits end with this thing. I’ve also noticed that it’s been making more noise then usual when testing.

I’m going to try to calibrate one more time with their solution that I test with Hanna first and input that number. I just don’t understand why it took the numbers I gave it when I used their solution, and it held. Albeit they were wrong numbers, but they held. When I calibrated with their solution the bottle read 8.45, Hanna/Salifert both read 9.3, but I used 8.45 from the bottle. After that calibration I didn’t run a test with the calibration fluid, I just put the supply line back in my tank, then used Hanna/Salifert to test my tank water. Trident read 0.85dkh lower then my other tests, which is exactly the amount that the calibration fluid tested at compared to my other tests.

So it seems when I calibrate with any other solution (in this case I have tried with Fauna Marin once and my own tank water twice) the trident will read 1.45-1.5dkh lower then the values I tell it.

When I speak with them again on Friday I’m going to mention to them that there are a handful of others that are experiencing this same defect, and it seems to be people who just bought their unit I’m the last few months (I got mine about 2.5 months ago when they were on sale at BRS)

So here is some follow up.
I replaced the Alk reagent and did a cal with new trident solution and the cal hit 8.3 which is what the solution was marked as. Then ran a test and the Dkh jumped a full point from the prior test :rolls eyes: did a salivary and it’s about 1 dkh lower which is where it seems to want to run.

Still don’t get why it wouldn’t give the same reading with tank water used as a calibration fluid.

I should have run a test with the cal fluid first now that I think of it.

Gonna order some ABC reagents and try their cal solution next and for the time being just accept that it’s off between 0.5 and 1 DKH

 

[Gatorpa]

I had my call with them on Monday. They had me run the calibration with a new bottle of solution then run a full set of tests on the solution prior to the call.
Solution: Alk 8.9, Cal 480, Mag 1368.
When the calibration finished the Trident showed Alk 7.78, Cal 350, Mag 1375.
I ran the full tests on the solution about 10 min later and Trident showed the numbers I had entered above for the calibration process.
He pulled reports or logs from the Trident and had their engineers look at it while I was on the phone. They said there was definitely an issue with the calibration process or calculations or something. He did a factory reset and asked me to do another calibration after several days and report the numbers back to him. I'll report back again in a day or two.

After calibrating I also ran a test on tank water.
Salifert / Hanna: Alk 8.9, Cal 430, Mag 1395
Trident: 7.95, Cal 474, Mag 1380

That’s very interesting.
Please keep us posted.

 

[Gophish1982]

I had my call with them on Monday. They had me run the calibration with a new bottle of solution then run a full set of tests on the solution prior to the call.
Solution: Alk 8.9, Cal 480, Mag 1368.
When the calibration finished the Trident showed Alk 7.78, Cal 350, Mag 1375.
I ran the full tests on the solution about 10 min later and Trident showed the numbers I had entered above for the calibration process.
He pulled reports or logs from the Trident and had their engineers look at it while I was on the phone. They said there was definitely an issue with the calibration process or calculations or something. He did a factory reset and asked me to do another calibration after several days and report the numbers back to him. I'll report back again in a day or two.

After calibrating I also ran a test on tank water.
Salifert / Hanna: Alk 8.9, Cal 430, Mag 1395
Trident: 7.95, Cal 474, Mag

Do you remember who you spoke with? My first call was with Carlos.

 

[Jimbo662]

Do you remember who you spoke with? My first call was with Carlos.

I've been working with Carlos also.

 

[Jimbo662]

After having Carlos do a factory reset this past Monday I just finished the calibration. The numbers look much better.

	Alk	Cal	Mag
Cal Fluid	8.9​	480​	1375​
Calibration result	8.9​	480​	1375​
Tri Test - Cal Fluid	8.91​	488​	1371​
Manual Test	9.8​	441​	1415​
Delta between Manual / Trident test	0.89​	-47​	44​
Tank
Tri Test	7.62​	479​	1326​
Manual Test	8.6​	422​	1350​
Delta between Manual / Trident test	0.98​	-57​	24​

Previous calibration numbers
Solution: Alk 8.9, Cal 480, Mag 1368.
Calibration results Alk 7.78, Cal 350, Mag 1375.

 

[Rskiba]

I, too, purchased my Trident a few months ago when they were on sale at BRS. I have been using it since the beginning of October. This makes me nervous that my dosing has been off although things in the tank look OK. Mostly LPS but I want to start adding SPS and I know that my chemistry needs to be consistent which is why I purchased the Trident. I have not been double checking the Trident, but that will change this week. Hope there is some guidance from Neptune soon as to what is going on here.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I, too, purchased my Trident a few months ago when they were on sale at BRS. I have been using it since the beginning of October. This makes me nervous that my dosing has been off although things in the tank look OK. Mostly LPS but I want to start adding SPS and I know that my chemistry needs to be consistent which is why I purchased the Trident. I have not been double checking the Trident, but that will change this week. Hope there is some guidance from Neptune soon as to what is going on here.

I definitely think there is something wrong with Tridents last shipment. Seems like everyone with a new trident has this alkalinity issue. I have it...got mine replaced and it is still off. The one GOOD thing is that though my alk is wrong...so far it is consistently wrong so I can at least do some automation based upon the wrong numbers. Gotta love the three page auto response email of 'do the mental math and live with it'

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I definitely think there is something wrong with Tridents last shipment. Seems like everyone with a new trident has this alkalinity issue. I have it...got mine replaced and it is still off. The one GOOD thing is that though my alk is wrong...so far it is consistently wrong so I can at least do some automation based upon the wrong numbers. Gotta love the three page auto response email of 'do the mental math and live with it'

Was reading thru this and thinking of you and here you are at the last post lol . Anyways was gunna say to you read post 48 seems this guy spoke with neptunes and they did a reset that now seems to be working better. Maybe try to get them to do this for yours?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Ok after really looking at his numbers they really don’t seem much better lol

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Was reading thru this and thinking of you and here you are at the last post lol . Anyways was gunna say to you read post 48 seems this guy spoke with neptunes and they did a reset that now seems to be working better. Maybe try to get them to do this for yours?

I got a new unit from them...and it is still off.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I got a new unit from them...and it is still off.

Yeah because you need the reset also

 

[AKL1950]

I definitely think there is something wrong with Tridents last shipment. Seems like everyone with a new trident has this alkalinity issue. I have it...got mine replaced and it is still off. The one GOOD thing is that though my alk is wrong...so far it is consistently wrong so I can at least do some automation based upon the wrong numbers. Gotta love the three page auto response email of 'do the mental math and live with it'

Same here. I always add 1.6 to whatever Trident says. Salifert is 7.9, Hanna is 8.2. Trident come in around 6.4. Add 1.6 which gives me 8.0 and it’s right in line with the others.

 

[Gatorpa]

Same here. I always add 1.6 to whatever Trident says. Salifert is 7.9, Hanna is 8.2. Trident come in around 6.4. Add 1.6 which gives me 8.0 and it’s right in line with the others.

So I just tested as I’m doing an ICP.
Salifert 8.9
Trident 7.84 at 1800
retested at 1900 (that’s when I tested the salifert and drew out my ICP sample 7.61

I‘m going to do a few things in this order
Clean the vial
Switch to ABC reagents
Calibration with their solutions

Then I’ll see how she runs and wait on the ICP.
Im pretty fastidious when doing the manual Salifert and those numbers are darn consistent so I don’t think that’s user error or variance.

I’ll report back when all that is done.

 

[Gatorpa]

Question for everyone. Trident says not to put the unit below the level of the sample line. It doesn’t say anything about how high above the sample line it can be. For those of us getting low readings, how high above the sample line intake is your trident? Mine is about 2’ above it. I’m just wondering if a micro leak in the sample line is enough to cause a mini reverse siphon which might make the first, or only test (which is Alk) show error low because the amount of water used is very slightly lower than it should be. Mine comes up 20% lower than my Salifert test, so I cross checked with a Salifert test. I used 20% less water with the normal amount of regent and the results were spot on exactly like the trident results.

So are you comparing to the top of the sample line or the level where the sample is drawn from?

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Same here. I always add 1.6 to whatever Trident says. Salifert is 7.9, Hanna is 8.2. Trident come in around 6.4. Add 1.6 which gives me 8.0 and it’s right in line with the others.

I actually submitted a software enhancement to trident to allow for a plug number for this testing so that we can get to the numbers we are expecting and don’t have to reset all of our automations that are based on levels.

 

[AKL1950]

So are you comparing to the top of the sample line or the level where the sample is drawn from?

I’m thinking the area I have the sample line in my sump is allowing it to get micro bubble. Since my trident is almost a foot above where the sample is drawn, all those micro bubbles will eventually get to the trident. I’m experimented now with a different set up. I’ve got the trident closer to my tank so I can get the sample prob close to the bottom of the sump and ive set the trident so it’s level with the end of the sample line. Doesn't seem to have made a difference, but I’m changing out regent in about a week. I’m going to see what happens then when I recalibrate. It stared reading bad the first time I recalibrated it, so maybe I can reverse that.

 

[AKL1950]

So are you comparing to the top of the sample line or the level where the sample is drawn from?

Sorry, forgot to answer your question. Trident Height compared to here sample line draws from. My sample line went from there up to the trident. Now the line loops over the edge of the sump back down to the trident.