Need some help - I struggle with low light & color changing DI

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

So, drum roll....

First, I have to laugh at myself when I came across a 3 point TDS probe, then I thought about what I said above about not having a handheld unit.. Sometimes I just need a minute, lol.

So, not sure how I did this but on the 2 membrane sleeves I crossed the waste and the clean water lines. Just like my name says, I took this all apart as to ensure they were seated correctly also and I dropped one of the membrane sleeves and broke two of the John Quest fittings, lol. So, off to the store I went.

So, I still have TDS, but I think I need to run the unit for a few hours to flush it. After 30 minutes it has already dropped back. So, the TDS for my tap water is 43. The TDS before the DI is 12 and I am getting 2 after the DI resin. Now, I am sure it is flooded with partial waste water. I am ordering new Carbon blocks. I am also debating about just replacing all the DI resins and starting over. I bought the 7 pound bags as apposed to the 1 pound bags. When I got it I broke it down and vacuum sealed it all. So, considering I have a couple year supply on the mixed, I am not sure that isn't such a bad idea. But, I'll see what the TDS looks like in 90 minutes. The membranes are 2.5 months old, I checked. Well this took much longer than I thought!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

If the membranes are working properly, with a starting (tap) TDS of 43, you should have virtually none going into the first DI resin

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

If they are seated properly, what would be the next step with them?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

If they are seated properly, what would be the next step with them?

Replacement. Sometimes they are just bad. Where did you purchase? If it wasn't from Amazon, the seller might give you a replacement.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Replacement. Sometimes they are just bad. Where did you purchase? If it wasn't from Amazon, the seller might give you a replacement.

BRS. I just checked and it is still 7 pre DI and 2 now after DI.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

BRS. I just checked and it is still 7 pre DI and 2 now after DI.

Less than 50 at the tap and still 2 at the end? Don't know what to tell you.

 

[KStatefan]

If they are seated properly, what would be the next step with them?

I would disconnect from DI and get membranes working correct first

Water pressure at membrane?
Water temperature at membrane?
Waste to permeate ratio?

If all that looks good then I would remove the water saver hook up and check the rejection rate on each membrane separately.

On a lot of membrane housings the permeate fitting has a check valve built in.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Yeah, something really at play here.
Ratio of product (516.2 ML) to waste (1866.5 ML)
Temp - 77.9
Pressure 85#
It took 20 minutes to make 1/2 gallon of product water. That in turn is 1.5 gallons an hour or 36 gallons per day.

Tap TDS - 40
TDS on final product - 2
TDS on waste for final product - 43

Membrane 1 - Measuring the output of the membrane directly:
Product - 7
Waste - 42

Membrane 2 - The waste from Membrane 1 is feeding Membrane 2 in this measurement:
Product - 20
Waste - 50

Using the supply from the pressure gauge to Membrane 2
Product - 20
Waste - 43

TDS before it enters the first DI canister - 11

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Yeah, something really at play here.
Ratio of product (516.2 ML) to waste (1866.5 ML)
Temp - 77.9
Pressure 85#
It took 20 minutes to make 1/2 gallon of product water. That in turn is 1.5 gallons an hour or 36 gallons per day.

Tap TDS - 40
TDS on final product - 2
TDS on waste for final product - 43

Membrane 1 - Measuring the output of the membrane directly:
Product - 7
Waste - 42

Membrane 2 - The waste from Membrane 1 is feeding Membrane 2 in this measurement:
Product - 20
Waste - 50

Using the supply from the pressure gauge to Membrane 2
Product - 20
Waste - 43

TDS before it enters the first DI canister - 11

I might need to check on the john quest fittings I had to replace yesterday. Could I have tightened them too far in and the are now being restrictive? Something isn't adding up here. I compared this to the BRS pics and it all looks right.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

So I ran some additional independent membrane testing last night. Both membranes were connected to the inbound pressurized water coming out of the carbon canisters.

Membrane 1 - output was 7 TDS and in a timed 5 minute test produced 1K ML of product.

Membrane 2 - output was 23 TDS and in a timed 5 minute test produced 500 ML of product.

After this test I hooked up each to my 3 DI canisters. Here is the weird part. I ran both through the 3 DI canisters for 30 minutes to purge the canisters of the previous water prior to testing. I tested with both the display on the unit and with a handheld unit at the same time. For the duration of these tests both the display and handheld unit have both been consistently presenting identical findings.

Membrane number 1 had the best results. Inbound on the first canister was 7 TDS the final product never made it to zero, it stopped at 1. Membrane number 2 was 15. From there I ran Membrane 1 for 90 minutes through the 3 DI canisters and still was 1 not zero.

Obviously I have a bad membrane. But, using the 3 DI canisters I should be able to get from 7 to zero, right? So today I am calling about the bad membrane. Tonight I will replace all the DI resin and see what happens.

I am going to order new carbon filters today also. If I run a 1 mic sediment filter does it matter if the carbon is a 1 or 5? If sediment is a 1, then a 1 mic carbon is a waste of money and get the 5? Or, get the 0.5 carbon? If sediment is a 1, then nothing from a 5-1 sized particle should make it through to the carbon, no?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

On hobby grade test equipment, I would consider "1" to be "0". Especially considering all the other issues you've had.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I am going to order new carbon filters today also. If I run a 1 mic sediment filter does it matter if the carbon is a 1 or 5? If sediment is a 1, then a 1 mic carbon is a waste of money and get the 5? Or, get the 0.5 carbon? If sediment is a 1, then nothing from a 5-1 sized particle should make it through to the carbon, no?

@Buckeye Hydro , can you comment on the recommended micron sizes and placement (assuming more than one sediment and/or carbon)?

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I am going to order new carbon filters today also. If I run a 1 mic sediment filter does it matter if the carbon is a 1 or 5? If sediment is a 1, then a 1 mic carbon is a waste of money and get the 5? Or, get the 0.5 carbon? If sediment is a 1, then nothing from a 5-1 sized particle should make it through to the carbon, no?

Can't say I'm following your questions above, but:
Go with 1 micron sediment filter.

Do you have chloramine in your water?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

@Buckeye Hydro

The question is:
If my sediment filter is a 1 micron (#1), what micron should my carbon filters be (#2 & #3)

A) 5 Mic
B) 1Mic or less

The reason I ask this is, if my sediment, which is first inline, is a 1, does a 5 micron carbon make sense, should it be equal to or less than the micron it is following?

While I have you. I have some spare sediment (1 and 5 micron) and space canisters laying around. By putting a 5 micron sediment filter in front of a 1 micron sediment filter, would the life of the 1 micron sediment filter be extended?

As for chloramine, I have attached the 2022 water testing report for my area, I am not sure if the number stated is good or bad as it relates to your question. Also, I have included a test from 10 houses from last month. Earlier this year we had diesel spill into our reservoir, what a headache... Living without water for a bit was really interesting... Well, the only thing we could do was flush with it, thank goodness for that. Anyway, I have copied that as well.

2022:

Last week:

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

The chlorine levels are higher today vs. 2022 due to the event from July, that I am sure of. Or, at least it was.

 

[KStatefan]

If you run a carbon block smaller then your sediment you can plug the carbon with sediment.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Let's back up a little.

The entire concepts of successive filters having smaller and smaller pore size is a good one, but it applies ONLY TO SEDIMENT FILTERS. When you get to the carbon filter(s):

• none should have a pore size more than 0.5 micron smaller (tighter) than the sediment filter
• the carbon block with the HIGHEST CAPACITY should be placed first after the sediment filter, followed by an equal or lower capacity carbon block.

Whatcouldgowrong71 - our filters are here: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/filters/

Russ

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I have some spare sediment (1 and 5 micron) and canisters HOUSINGS laying around. By putting a 5 micron sediment filter in front of a 1 micron sediment filter, would the life of the 1 micron sediment filter be extended?

Maybe... probably - but hard to say definitively because everyone's sediment profile is different. You may have very little sediment larger than 1 micron, or you may have a lot. We have a lab who can tell us exactly what you have... but that's expensive. Remember also that every time you add a sediment filter you pay a cost in terms of lost pressure - even when they are new/clean.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Best I can tell from the info you posted you have chlorine in your water, not chloramines. Your chlorine levels of 0.6 to 1 ppm are nothing unusual.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

First, @Buckeye Hydro thank you for your information. I was looking at your site, I am going to order a couple things, I will send you a PM with a question or two, sorry in advance

Also, everyone else thank you. Finally figured this out. I had a couple things going on, obviously...

BRS is sending me out a replacement membrane as it would appear it is faulty. Also, I had channeling in both cation and anion canisters. I wound up simply changing all three then. I have zero TDS after the anion, so obviously also after the mixed bed. Glad to have this sorted out finally.