Need Some Help Please, FishMedics

[Reefer Matt]

#fishmedic
Backstory on this fish is that it is a new acquisition 3 weeks ago. It is too big for my qt, so I added it directly to the fowlr and started cupramine on 7-2-23. I haven't seen any signs of ich or velvet the entire time in any fish. This issue just became noticeable today, and the fish is not using this fin much, but is swimming okay. This fish, and a couple others are scraping on the rocks. I did a 40% water change, and am running carbon to remove the cupramine. My thought is a bacterial infection, and may start Pimafix, but I would like some feedback. The other fin is okay, and there are no noticeable fin issues with other fish. All are eating very well. Thank you!

 

[Reefer Matt]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

 

[Rmckoy]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

I don’t think you will find @vetteguy53081

 

[vetteguy53081]

#fishmedic
Backstory on this fish is that it is a new acquisition 3 weeks ago. It is too big for my qt, so I added it directly to the fowlr and started cupramine on 7-2-23. I haven't seen any signs of ich or velvet the entire time in any fish. This issue just became noticeable today, and the fish is not using this fin much, but is swimming okay. This fish, and a couple others are scraping on the rocks. I did a 40% water change, and am running carbon to remove the cupramine. My thought is a bacterial infection, and may start Pimafix, but I would like some feedback. The other fin is okay, and there are no noticeable fin issues with other fish. All are eating very well. Thank you!

May be an injury or fin ray damage but need clearer pics. Scratching and scraping are signs also of flukes but its never wise to start guessing and adding unnecessary meds/treatments.
Are fish eating?
Are they breathing normal or labored?
What level of cupramine did you treat at and how did you test the level?

Sign signs of velvet are fish gasping at surface, breathing heavy, loss of appetite, swimming in path of water flow and with flukes, clamped fins and loss of appetite, scratching/darting and yawning effect.

 

[Reefer Matt]

@vetteguy53081

Fish are all eating normal. The tank was dosed around 0.5 mg/l cupramine for 3 weeks. Breathing is normal. The fish does rest sometimes, as it doesn't really use that fin. I would suspect an injury, but two other fish are rubbing, but nothing visually wrong. This just started today, the fish was swimming normally yesterday. Thank you.

*I just noticed some head shaking too.

 

[Reefer Matt]

May be an injury or fin ray damage but need clearer pics. Scratching and scraping are signs also of flukes but its never wise to start guessing and adding unnecessary meds/treatments.
Are fish eating?
Are they breathing normal or labored?
What level of cupramine did you treat at and how did you test the level?

Sign signs of velvet are fish gasping at surface, breathing heavy, loss of appetite, swimming in path of water flow and with flukes, clamped fins and loss of appetite, scratching/darting and yawning effect.

I'm thinking flukes now, after reading a bit. I will do a fw bath tomorrow and getting some prazipro.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm thinking flukes now, after reading a bit. I will do a fw bath tomorrow and getting some prazipro.

Freshwater bath will offer temporary relief and not cure but help buy some time
For prazi, treat the tank and allow to work for 7-8 days and then change water, dose another application for 8 days
Because prazi reduces oxygen and appetite a little, adding an air stone will be beneficial

 

[Reefer Matt]

Freshwater bath will offer temporary relief and not cure but help buy some time
For prazi, treat the tank and allow to work for 7-8 days and then change water, dose another application for 8 days
Because prazi reduces oxygen and appetite a little, adding an air stone will be beneficial

Thank you. This is something that I shoulda known better and did a Safety Stop treatment or something. I just hope I can remedy it in time.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm thinking flukes now, after reading a bit. I will do a fw bath tomorrow and getting some prazipro.

Given the fish species and the symptoms, and the history (already treated with copper) I’d say this is Neobenedenia flukes. You could confirm that by giving the fish a 5 minute FW dip and looking for dead flukes, or just go ahead and treat.

Praziquantel is often suggested to control flukes, but this species is a lot tougher. Three treatments 8 days apart are needed, and sometimes people need to go to 5 treatments. Prazi doesn’t kill their eggs, and you need to try and time things do the eggs hatch out, but you kill the hatched worms before they can lay more eggs.

Hyposalinity go 30 to 35 days works better for me.

Jay

 

[Reefer Matt]

Given the fish species and the symptoms, and the history (already treated with copper) I’d say this is Neobenedenia flukes. You could confirm that by giving the fish a 5 minute FW dip and looking for dead flukes, or just go ahead and treat.

Praziquantel is often suggested to control flukes, but this species is a lot tougher. Three treatments 8 days apart are needed, and sometimes people need to go to 5 treatments. Prazi doesn’t kill their eggs, and you need to try and time things do the eggs hatch out, but you kill the hatched worms before they can lay more eggs.

Hyposalinity go 30 to 35 days works better for me.

Jay

Thanks Jay! I'm going to start lowering salinity, do a fw bath (if I can catch it), and treat with prazi. I completely forgot that cupramine does nothing for flukes, and I have never had a fish with a known fluke issue before. Ich and velvet were more of an issue in the past for this tank, but I leave it as a fowlr so I can treat as necessary. But if there is a next time, I will do more to prevent this.

 

[Reefer Matt]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal
Flukes confirmed. It was covered in them.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal
Flukes confirmed. It was covered in them.

As suspected. PraziPro is your new friend,

 

[Reefer Matt]

As suspected. PraziPro is your new friend,

Thanks again!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks again!

Yep, that's Neobenedenia. Prazipro, will knock this back, but may not stop this for you, they are pretty tough. Half salinity (no inverts of course) for 30 to 35 days works better.

Here is a writeup I did on that:

Barrett L. Christie, a public aquarium curator, has researched a variety of treatment methods and has struck upon one that is highly effective. The treatment is relatively simple; in a quarantine system, the fish are exposed to hyposalinity (low salinity) for 30 days. Exactly how low of a salinity is the variable that needs to be controlled. Some species of fish do not tolerate lower salinities, yet if the salinity is not reduced enough, the parasite population is only reduced, not eradicated. Barrett has hit upon a workable value of 17 parts per thousand, a bit less than half the salinity of normal seawater (this equates to a specific gravity of around 1.013). Using a target of 16 ppt for 35 days is better, as it ensures that any errors in salinity measurement or timing won’t affect the treatment. Obviously, most invertebrates cannot be present during this sort of treatment. Sharks and some rays cannot tolerate it either. Assuming the fish are healthy in all other respects, you begin this treatment by lowering the salinity to the target value over 24 to 48 hours. During the low salinity treatment, water quality must be monitored closely, especially pH. Be aware that some other diseases, notably Uronema and Amyloodinium thrive at lower salinities. Luckily, another common scourge, marine ich, Cryptocaryon irritans, is also inhibited by low salinity. After 35 days, the salinity is gradually raised back to normal. It is imperative to perform this change back to normal seawater very slowly. While marine fish tolerate a drop in salinity very well, their kidneys have more difficulty adjusting as the salinity is raised. Never return fish to normal salinity faster than 72 hours, and don’t make large changes at one time.

Jay

 

[Reefer Matt]

Yep, that's Neobenedenia. Prazipro, will knock this back, but may not stop this for you, they are pretty tough. Half salinity (no inverts of course) for 30 to 35 days works better.

Here is a writeup I did on that:

Barrett L. Christie, a public aquarium curator, has researched a variety of treatment methods and has struck upon one that is highly effective. The treatment is relatively simple; in a quarantine system, the fish are exposed to hyposalinity (low salinity) for 30 days. Exactly how low of a salinity is the variable that needs to be controlled. Some species of fish do not tolerate lower salinities, yet if the salinity is not reduced enough, the parasite population is only reduced, not eradicated. Barrett has hit upon a workable value of 17 parts per thousand, a bit less than half the salinity of normal seawater (this equates to a specific gravity of around 1.013). Using a target of 16 ppt for 35 days is better, as it ensures that any errors in salinity measurement or timing won’t affect the treatment. Obviously, most invertebrates cannot be present during this sort of treatment. Sharks and some rays cannot tolerate it either. Assuming the fish are healthy in all other respects, you begin this treatment by lowering the salinity to the target value over 24 to 48 hours. During the low salinity treatment, water quality must be monitored closely, especially pH. Be aware that some other diseases, notably Uronema and Amyloodinium thrive at lower salinities. Luckily, another common scourge, marine ich, Cryptocaryon irritans, is also inhibited by low salinity. After 35 days, the salinity is gradually raised back to normal. It is imperative to perform this change back to normal seawater very slowly. While marine fish tolerate a drop in salinity very well, their kidneys have more difficulty adjusting as the salinity is raised. Never return fish to normal salinity faster than 72 hours, and don’t make large changes at one time.

Jay

Awesome. Thanks again, Jay! This is a reason why I have a microscope. I don't want to guess what ailments pop up, and get right to the correct treatment.