Need to fast cycle a nem tank

[Bubblebass]

I have a chance to get 30 BTA's at a price that I don't want to pass up. I have a dry JBJ 45 AIO and I think it would be super fun to make a harem for my clowns in my other tank that love to be hosted. I am going to attempt to have the seller hold the BTA's for a week, but he may want to get them out of his possession ASAP. The BTA's are in a healthy tank that's being torn down. The seller does not want to sell the tank.

My plan is to get the 45 setup, add new sand (not sure on the sand), salt water and Bio-Spira along with the clowns. When I get the nems, I will add all of the rock that the nems are on and hope that the hour drive to my house keeps them in good shape. I will be monitoring for ammonia spikes with a test kit and watch for signs of stress to the fish. I can transfer them back to the original tank if needed.

I have other options as well - I'm hoping to hear from the experts on this:

I can NOT add the clowns and use ALL cycled rock and some sand from the sellers tank with the nems (as well as his saltwater). I will by trying to keep it all submerged the whole time in tank water to reduce die off of sponges and such.

If I see any ammonia spike, I could use Prime or do water changes.

Please let me know other opinions or things I am not thinking of.

I know this is the not ideal way to go about this...this is about the 6th tank I've cycled and I know it's a rush job. It is what it is....I just want to give the nems the best chance.
Thank you for any advice!

 

[attiland]

Fast and reef are not going hand in hand. I am not a BTA expert but I understand they need a more mature tank in a ideal word.
since to plan to add mature rock you may get away with it but I would seek refuge for your BTA while you set up the tank if that is an option

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I have a chance to get 30 BTA's at a price that I don't want to pass up. I have a dry JBJ 45 AIO and I think it would be super fun to make a harem for my clowns in my other tank that love to be hosted. I am going to attempt to have the seller hold the BTA's for a week, but he may want to get them out of his possession ASAP. The BTA's are in a healthy tank that's being torn down. The seller does not want to sell the tank.

My plan is to get the 45 setup, add new sand (not sure on the sand), salt water and Bio-Spira along with the clowns. When I get the nems, I will add all of the rock that the nems are on and hope that the hour drive to my house keeps them in good shape. I will be monitoring for ammonia spikes with a test kit and watch for signs of stress to the fish. I can transfer them back to the original tank if needed.

I have other options as well - I'm hoping to hear from the experts on this:

I can NOT add the clowns and use ALL cycled rock and some sand from the sellers tank with the nems (as well as his saltwater). I will by trying to keep it all submerged the whole time in tank water to reduce die off of sponges and such.

If I see any ammonia spike, I could use Prime or do water changes.

Please let me know other opinions or things I am not thinking of.

I know this is the not ideal way to go about this...this is about the 6th tank I've cycled and I know it's a rush job. It is what it is....I just want to give the nems the best chance.
Thank you for any advice!

Nems are currently on rock that has been wet a while? If so, this is basically a tank move with new water. I would suggest to get as much old water as you can, so you can reduce the acclimation time. It should also help get them in water with closer parameters.

Basically think of it as a tank upgrade. You use some new water and old water and then monitor the tank for a mini cycle.

An hour drive with the nems should not be an issue, as long as you are prepared for it. I have carried nems 12 hours with no issues. Just have to be prepared.

 

[Cell]

If you are set on doing this, then I'd also try to find as much live rock as I could.

 

[Dolphins18]

I've done it quite a few times, its not simple but certainly doable. You will need to add quality live rock with no die off, at least 30 pounds, preferably more. I have never used that bottled bacteria stuff as that was not around when I started.
Using as much as the existing saltwater will help, but live rock without any die off is the key here.
Nems will be fine in transit.
A few months ago I did it in 2 40 breeders, with well over 100 nems, and I've done it several other times in the past. Theres been a few times I have almost lost many, but they've pulled thru. You have to remain fairly reactive and know what to do in certain situations, nems don't like a lot of the early on uglies that will come even well after the nitrogen cycle has completed. Would be much easier and a much higher chance of survival to establish first and then get them far down the road, 4-5 will split into that many after a couple years.
FWIW, I skipped sand in my most recent ones. Doesn't matter too much, but its not necessary.

 

[HeyLookItsCaps]

I would skip sand 100% because that’s just adding more variables, notice how most grow outs don’t have sand, it’s adding more upkeep and losing more control, sand is mostly an aesthetic thing for us. I drove a broken down tank (rock/coral/fish/inverts) 1400 miles in totes/barrels completely submerged with an inverter running heaters and power heads in them. After a good month or two of it set up I added sand little by little over time to get the look I wanted. I only lost one fish doing it this way

 

[Bubblebass]

Nems are currently on rock that has been wet a while? If so, this is basically a tank move with new water. I would suggest to get as much old water as you can, so you can reduce the acclimation time. It should also help get them in water with closer parameters.

Basically think of it as a tank upgrade. You use some new water and old water and then monitor the tank for a mini cycle.

An hour drive with the nems should not be an issue, as long as you are prepared for it. I have carried nems 12 hours with no issues. Just have to be prepared.

Yes - exactly. More of a tank move I guess. With that thinking I’ll get all the rock and water that he’ll let me have. What other preparation would you suggest?

 

[Bubblebass]

I would skip sand 100% because that’s just adding more variables, notice how most grow outs don’t have sand, that’s an aesthetic thing for us. I drove a broken down tank (rock/coral/fish/inverts) 1400 miles in totes/barrels completely submerged with an inverter running heaters and power heads in them. After a good month or two of it set up I added sand little by little over time to get the look I wanted. I only lost one fish doing it this way

My thought was that a lot of the beneficial bacteria are on the sand - given it has the most surface area.

 

[HeyLookItsCaps]

My thought was that a lot of the beneficial bacteria are on the sand - given it has the most surface area.

However with “live sand” some of it if not a majority of it is “dead” which can cause a larger issue. I’ve been in the hobby for 14 years and I remember live sand was the ONLY way back then, with recently digging back in deeper a lot of folks are recommending dead or washed dry sand because of what “could be” alive and/or dead in it.

 

[HeyLookItsCaps]

Something like microbacter7 can help you, I wouldn’t use start etc or anything because you’re not trying to trigger a heavy cycle, but adding micro7 might help

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Yes - exactly. More of a tank move I guess. With that thinking I’ll get all the rock and water that he’ll let me have. What other preparation would you suggest?

No sand at first. Basically move all the “old” and setup. Then slowly add more new water until full. You can use a powerhead and heater in the tank to keep it moving and heated, if needed.

For travel, I prefer to carry nems on rocks in bags full of water in buckets full of water. This provides cushion for the ride, allows a small heater to be placed in bucket if needed and it will prevent the heater from touching the nem. I do only use heaters with a guard, or make one with egg crate.

For an hour, there should be no need for a bubbler for nems.

 

[Bubblebass]

However with “live sand” some of it if not a majority of it is “dead” which can cause a larger issue. I’ve been in the hobby for 14 years and I remember live sand was the ONLY way back then, with recently digging back in deeper a lot of folks are recommending dead or washed dry sand because of what “could be” alive and/or dead in it.

Yes I agree. I meant if I could keep the sand from the tank the nems are in now.

 

[HeyLookItsCaps]

Yes I agree. I meant if I could keep the sand from the tank the nems are in now.

Yes I agree. I meant if I could keep the sand from the tank the nems are in now.

Oh, for sure with that! Just keep it all submerged. It weighed down my uhaul but it worked for me

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Yes I agree. I meant if I could keep the sand from the tank the nems are in now.

The issue with the sand is that you do not know when the last time it was cleaned, how much junk is in it or what. It would need to be rinsed, IMO, before use.

 

[HeyLookItsCaps]

The issue with the sand is that you do not know when the last time it was cleaned, how much junk is in it or what. It would need to be rinsed, IMO, before use.

This is a great point. I went bare bottom with mine, rinsed the sand, and then added it to mine but that is because I knew it had about 5-6 years in before the move

 

[Eagle_Steve]

OK, now that I am in front of my PC, here is how I transport collected items back from Florida and have transported entire tank tear downs I purchased. Most of them well over a 3-4 hour drive.

- Cooler. Size needs to allow for all bags to fit in there. Can use multiple coolers.
- Place nems in ziplock freezer bags. Rocks and all. Triple bag and do that for all of them. If there are very large rocks with nems, this becomes an issue and you may be able to get away with 2 gallon freezer bags. Some store carry them and some do not. If they do not, vaccum seal roll works also. Tie one end of it, then cut it to be the size you need. I have fit large things in them for transport. You then use rubber bands to seal the bag after it is full of water.
- Once all bags are full of water. Like all the way full with the least amount of air possible, load the cooler up. Put cooler in vehicle.
- Fill buckets with water and then fill cooler up.
- Fill buckets up and seal buckets for as much water as you can take.
- Duct tape cooler shut and then run duct tape around the cooler to fully seal it up, unless you do not care about the occasional splash.
- Drive home.
- Take bags out of cooler and place in the tank. DO NOT OPEN YET.
- Take bucket and use cooler drain to drain water into bucket.
- Once bucket is full or full enough to still be manageable, carry water inside and pour over the bags.
- Continue this until all water from cooler is in the tank.
- Then keep adding the rest of the water from the buckets. Hopefully, you have enough to fill that tank up, if not, no worries.
- Once you have all of the water in the tank and the tank is full, open the bags and set them nems in there. UNLESS YOU USED NEW WATER. If you used new water, put a nice slice in the bag and either use a power head or the return pump for the tank to begin circulating and heating the water. This will allow for the water in the bags and the tank to slowly mix and will acclimate the nems to the new parameters of adding new water.
- If all old water and NO new, open bags, take the bags out place the nems and rocks, turn on only the return pump for the tank and begin heating it up to a normal temp. Power head can be turned on later in the day. Also, as you are stressing them by moving them, they may move and walk around. If you do not have a guard for your powerhead, you can make one out of cross stick mesh (sewing section at walmart, joanns, hobby lobby, etc.) and some zip ties. Just cut it so it fits arounf the powerhead and zip tie it to it for now. Proper guard can come later.

Now you just need to let the tank settle, look out for dead worms, etc. and check for ammonia. If using API, .25 may not be .25. It could very easily be 0. Nems are not as badly affected by ammonai as fish, but it is still not good for them. Prime or anything like that should be used per directions if ammonia gets to .5. If it goes higher, then do a 20% water change a couple of times, but not super close together.

Heck, you could even pick up an ammonia badge to watch, as those work well.

There would be no issue in adding some bottled bac, but I tend to stay away from that stuff. But that is me. If you have anohter tank already setup, snag a rock out of it for the time being and place it in there also. Even a used filter sock or filter floss has bacterai that is ready to process ammonia. Same idea of seeding a QT tank with a sponge from an exiting tanks sump.

Doing the above, I have never lost any nems. I have had SPS and LPS losses from them getting banged around or STN/RTN from the stress, But I can usually at least save a frag of the SPS.

But whatever route you take, good luck and yell at an of us if you run into any issues.

 

[Bubblebass]

@Eagle_Steve this is an awesome write up. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time, sir!

 

[Eagle_Steve]

@Eagle_Steve this is an awesome write up. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time, sir!

Not a problem. Nems are my favorite critter of the sea, so any way I can help keep them alive and happy I will do it lol.

 

[Bubblebass]

**UPDATE**. So far so good. Never got any ammonia. Nems look like they're doing great. Acclimating for 2 weeks with lights ramping up from 50%. Nitrates around 5, but PO4 is off the chart (literally - blue tint on hanna phosphorus checker and 200 flashing). I wanted to add my clowns this week, but am going to hold off until I feel they'll be safe.

@Eagle_Steve or anyone else......

Would VERY high PO4 be an issue for the Nems or fish? Will my water changes bring the PO4 to correct levels eventually or should I add some gfo? I hate gfo.....but would hate to lose any of the Nems.

 

[brandon429]

Well done everyone

adding this to Revs quick cycle thread