Neomeris

[brandon429]

some of the best neo battles are on the reefcentral peroxide thread in the nanos forum. multiple wars lol and we got our handed to us. one guy nacl dumps multiple quarts of 35% peroxide into his tank all at once lol im cracking up.

he's gone mental due to neomeris unresponsive and willing to kill everything just to spite the plant... and he did. even caused the rare ammonia spike (peroxide in any practical amnt has no measurable impact on filtration bacteria, he did the nonpractical amount) and after total tank death and minor cycle, neo pops up green as ever.

That was an algae challenge thread, and for like 35 pages nothing had beaten us. till neo

 

[Victoria M]

what about removing the rock and "cooking" it according to Melevs method? Anybody heard of this working?

 

[brandon429]

I'm positive there's a certain level of physical destruction possible to rocks that would kill it we just haven't found it yet. We don't know how long it can last in the dark or in low nutrient conditions etc


* Making a cure thread for neomeris is what turns a positor into an action taker we need that level of application to make real headway

 

[mcarroll]

large algae correction threads running years classifies neomeris as the #1 invader[...]

Without arguing Neomeris's #1 status ;), what if I showed you a blazing 250+ Gallon stony reef than had Neomeris it's whole life? It grew a range of sensitive stony corals, clams, etc.

It's true, but I don't go around making headlines out of it because I didn't know anyone cared. LOL. I had literally never heard of it before that tank or since – until this thread.

At least in that tank I'd always hawk the neomeris sprouts that would form just cuase they were so alien-cool looking! :D

The tangs (or something) would ultimately gobble it up cuz I never saw more than a single stalk at once and they'd never last long. In retospect, those sprouts must have tasted nasty to last in that tank even as long as they did. ;)

anyone that gets a cure gets lucky

That really makes it seem like it's out of our control. ;Bored I can't think like that.

It doesn't usually take long to find a new way to look at a problem....even the tough ones.

The solution most-overlooked, for example, is very often the one that's presented with, or suggested by, the problem itself. (e.g. Permaculture: The problem is the solution.)

 

[mcarroll]

wow! what on earth are you reading to find this stuff? I have not found much info in these scholarly articles that I can apply to aquarium keeping, atleast to my understanding. I read that last article just shaking my head...lol. Thank you for your help. I am heart broken to share that my fish all died. Beloved 10-11 year old perculas and 7-8 year old queen angel. The hospital tank was just very small, and atleast one fish was ill and stressed to start with. They looked good then 36 hours later they were all dead.

What??!! Oh no!

What happened to the fish?

So sorry.... :(

 

[Victoria M]

What??!! Oh no!

What happened to the fish?

So sorry.... :(

They were in a 20 gallon long, too crowded I know. I think the yellow tail damsel died and then the rest followed? They were fine then the next evening they were dead. The worst part is...I know better.

 

[Victoria M]

I suppose I will start a rebuild thread.

 

[mcarroll]

;Sorry

 

[brandon429]

Any Invader in reefing has a one-off cure. Fwiw, we can find them too on Google, a collection of one off cures, the ideal is a live time cure thread for neo tanks right now/live. its my opinion in dealing only with live time tank challenges that invasive dinos get the lucky cures way more often than neomeris dying off or being grazed/starved out of a system




* I'm not against making new theories to beat a scourge, we need that to evolve


is fun to always press for actual work links when reviewing tank scourges.



Theory is good, and if this thread can become a neo cure link then we're better off for the challenge

Though the claim of number-one invader is purely subjective it's backed by a fair amount of aquarium only work.

Over the coming months any PM's I get for neo will direct here. Nutrient additions is not a solution we've tried in the past and it certainly doesn't hurt to start a new collection of in-tank actions though it will take a while because those Invaders are rare

 

[Victoria M]

ok. I am game. does this include if I bleach the rock?

 

[mcarroll]

I'm really tired of hearing about people dumping bleach or peroxide in their tanks and calling it a cure for this or that.

I don't crack up at all. :(

 

[Victoria M]

Well, I am seriously considering using it. Or maybe muriatic acid on my rocks to rejuvinate the rock and use it as base rock. Not that I think bleach should be the first thing people do to their tanks but I think bleach has its uses. I even use it as a dakins solution in wounds.

 

[brandon429]

it cannot go without saying, the reason people evolved into trying bleach is because all other containment methods were fractional in payoff :)


literally any mode someone could choose to battle their dinos has a 10-30% max chance, and all modes are equal in that we see.

when something catches on, a big thread of proof or no proof w result. bleach has gained statistical significance in terms of equaling any other approach people have collected in proof threads. dino battling is still hit and miss for the most part, nobody has real control and any writing on the matter should reflect that. Writing on the matter cannot convey any type of implied control without threads of the application showing it working.

we're literally wanting something that will show repeated fixes in threads to take the place of all the hit and miss stuff. In our peroxide threads we were constantly talking people down from putting the peroxide in the tank water. Not that it doesn't work to fix lots of algae, as nutrients aren't the underlying cause in a massive portion of algae problem tanks, but its furthering someone's laziness to use that method and we want to train out of that way.

its better to remove rocks and work externally, and clean the tank too while this is done. dumping things in the water saves that work, and is a poor habit for the invaded imo, when algae is the target. For dinos, peroxide is a logged cure and it has the same chance as any.

There are indications for water-dosing...pelagic invaders/non anchored types use literally that battle method if direct targeting is a desired mode. You can literally cure a tank of algae just by attacking algae, and keeping detritus out of the tank at the same time. Keeping detritus out of the tank doesn't remove the set-in algae, so its a paired assault we use and my own tank is cured of algae now such that only keeping detritus gone maintains the condition. I used peroxide until the algae was dead, while the tank was kept clean years ago, and now for seven years the coralline and corals prevent all algae and I use no peroxide. Peroxide saved my tank literally, and thousands of others we've collected too.

Many tanks weren't fixed long term, but many were including mine. The thing we like most about peroxide is the ability to predict what tolerates it.
Though cures range with it, predictions of safety do not. our list of tolerant organisms is rock solid tested, so its at least a safe attempt.


bleach carries a different danger factor, so I prefer peroxide when that type of mode is chosen. others attempt to starve algae w GFO etc am aware.

Most of our algae threads are trying to convince a keeper who literally sat there and watched an invasion takeover to opt out of that, take out the rocks, nail the algae, and be done with it in a couple cycles. clean up that disgusting sandbed too lol...


Fluconazole changes the game though... those who farmed a particular invasion through inaction now only have to dump a powder in their tanks to win it all back, and that stuff has massive outcome significance in the threads that render its use in pics.

The game keeps changing so much in how we battle invasions. Nobody has dinos beat yet, so the new attempts just keep evolving.


Bleach will continue until someone steps up w better game, and collects it in threads.

 

[Victoria M]

Am I wasting my time to bleach my LR to make it base rock? My husband is convinced that the neo will just come back?

 

[brandon429]

All the works I've seen were people trying to cure it in tank without collateral loss. Nobody killed the rock then cured it out then posted a response that it came back. With a good long bleach soak I'd have to vote it would work. No prior data for that but it's at least very aggressive to give best chance. It's what I would do if getting new rock wasn't in picture

 

[Victoria M]

All the works I've seen were people trying to cure it in tank without collateral loss. Nobody killed the rock then cured it out then posted a response that it came back. With a good long bleach soak I'd have to vote it would work. No prior data for that but it's at least very aggressive to give best chance. It's what I would do if getting new rock wasn't in picture

Thank you for the clarification. I am probably going to do this. Just trying to decide how to save a few favorite corals.

 

[brandon429]

Also one other brainstorm... depending on how long you are going to take to start fresh, I sure would like to tangle with a test rock of that bad neomeris before takedown. My writing tone so far sounds like throw in the the towel admittedly... Data reflection on prior battles = poor :) but it's a plant...not from mars... surely there's a way to select for it and model any potential. Perhaps a 2017 try
and I would try fluconazole. It's potent for some species, new, untested in ALL of reefing on neo, reef safe, yes do IMO worth it. You have a big investment there and worse there's biopride on the line now.




Whole tank work is too hard for predictable growback but a test rock, why not try. Try your best to make a single test rock stay free of it...then we can upscale those tuned actions if any to the whole tank.

Below is my best attempt melding the old approaches with peroxide and the new approaches using rasping methods...algae control searchable threads where we use a metal tool, rasp, to dig the invader out of the rock:

Get mean, break chunks/dig divots we are battling audrey II from LSH and we want the rock to look like a parrotfish got after it for a while. Use digging force to debride the links out of rock, outside of tank, no fragments back in the main tank it's a test rock you can wield and control externally then put back in for growth testing

Debride the plant with metal rasp best as possible, then put 35% peroxide (health food store, refrigerated section, use gloves eye protection, we use it in nanos but be safe with it, do not store around small children ever) on the cleaned sections and let it sit. Rinse well put back in tank the peroxide is a risk to your skin and eyes in the reef it's nbd we cover extensive use in threads. We did all external work and rinsing here, nothing got back in main tank we're leaving it undisturbed as we get a test rock to comply.

Lastly, take a second smaller test rock with growth, and gently cross section the rock

Hammer it in two, use improv wedge...go easy don't powder the rock. It's to check plant depth growth and holdfast depth :) take pics if you can I would forever link the pics. From that sectioning you know how deep to rasp

If your test rock works fairly well, then do all the rock in a mega weekend run and use a ten day course on fluconazole as the clencher after 35/rasping all the rock. Get a troop of conscripted able-aged raspers ready to go lol pics gold. The test rock tells us if the greater effort is worth it. never give up without a miniature modeled fight.

 

[brandon429]

ps my way does not exclude mccarrols approach regarding N and P tuning, def do that after the stab work.

You cannot increase the invasion potential of neomeris other than importing it...it's wise to try those methods in the tank cuz now there's nothing to lose

Throw kitchen sink effort at a test rock, that plant only goes so deep it's resources are closer to where the light is I've never had a sectioning shown in pics before could be valuable for future searchers. Considering all the above is my chips-in effort for this invader, you can see why some opt to just burn the suckers out w rock killing via any means including sun baking.

 

[Victoria M]

Brandon, thank you so much for taking the time to help me. I started pulling out neo while dosing peroxide. I have never done that, so I figure now is the time to try anything. There is one fish who reappeared, a yellow coris wrasse. I have not been able to catch him. I hope he survives.

 

[Victoria M]

wow, I gave up on this thread. I did run an experimental tank. peroxide for a few weeks, then bleach for a few weeks. nothing destroyed it. It did seem to weaken. But I gave up. at the same time a rock with neo was sitting in my sump, no light. The neo not change. So in terms of time, I would say this was a medium time frame. Not a long term experiment. But I ultimately gave up and chose to start over completely. All of my LR except for a largish rock with my favorite and oldest coral has been discarded as detailed in my rebuild thread.