NeoPhos Dosing

[AngryOwl]

I'd like to begin dosing phosphates using NeoPhos but have no idea how to interpret the dose from the label. I will be dosing a 120g tank. Can anyone advise or make sense of this? I'd like phosphates to be between .05 -.15ppm. I'm currently at 0.

Instructions and Guidelines

1. Shake product well before using. Do not overdose. Results will be most significant when the system is being dosed with MICROBACTER7 on a daily or bi-daily basis.
2. Using accurate test kits or calibrated digital testing devices, determine phosphate and nitrate concentrations in system. It is assumed that the phosphate concentration in the system is below detectable limits for the testing method being employed.
3. Apply NEOPHOS as directed below to attain a phosphate concentration of ~0.02 ppm.
4. Allow 24-hours to elapse; re-test nitrate and phosphate concentrations. If concentrations remain unchanged, then the system is likely carbon-limited. Dose with REEF BIOFUEL at the rate of 1-ml per 25 US-gallons and allow 24-hours to elapse, then re-test phosphate and nitrate concentrations. Continue daily dosing with REEF BIOFUEL until phosphate or nitrate concentrations begin to decrease, indicating that the rate of carbon input to the system matches the rate of phosphorus- or nitrogen-input, respectively.
5. If nitrate concentration decreases without addition of REEF BIOFUEL or use of KATALYST, phosphate concentration in the system will decrease. Continue dosing with NEOPHOS to maintain phosphate concentration of ~0.01 - 0.02 ppm until nitrate concentration falls to within desired range (suggested 3 - 5 ppm). Thereafter, dose with NEOPHOS as required to maintain desired phosphate and nitrate concentrations.

Note:
If at any time, dosing with NEOPHOS results in a prolonged increase of phosphate concentration without gradual decrease as nitrate is taken up, system is likely carbon-limited (remedied by the application of REEF BIOFUEL or KATALYST to the system). Refer to Steps 3 and 4, or to our website (NEOPHOS "Technical" page). 1 ml NEOPHOS will increase the phosphate concentration in 1 US-gallon (~3.8 L) by ~1.2 ppm; 1 drop from plastic bulb pipette (enclosed within bottle) will increase the concentration in the same volume of water by ~0.06 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The only worthwhile direction there is that :

"1 ml NEOPHOS will increase the phosphate concentration in 1 US-gallon (~3.8 L) by ~1.2 ppm; 1 drop from plastic bulb pipette (enclosed within bottle) will increase the concentration in the same volume of water by ~0.06 ppm."

From that we can calculate that in a 120 gallon total volume system, 1 mL of Neophos will boost the phosphate by 0.01 ppm.

I'd add 2 mL per day for a few days and see what happens. 0.02 ppm should be plenty for most processes. IMO, 0.15 ppm is unnecessarily high.

 

[AngryOwl]

The only worthwhile direction there is that :

"1 ml NEOPHOS will increase the phosphate concentration in 1 US-gallon (~3.8 L) by ~1.2 ppm; 1 drop from plastic bulb pipette (enclosed within bottle) will increase the concentration in the same volume of water by ~0.06 ppm."

From that we can calculate that in a 120 gallon total volume system, 1 mL of Neophos will boost the phosphate by 0.01 ppm.

I'd add 2 mL per day for a few days and see what happens. 0.02 ppm should be plenty for most processes. IMO, 0.15 ppm is unnecessarily high.

So I gave that a shot last night, adding 2mL. Waited about an hour or longer and tested phosphates (red sea test) and still got 0 phosphates. Any ideas why? I guess at this point I just need to experiment by adding more. Maybe I'll try 5 mL and see what happens.

 

[jwshiver]

I use NeoPhos to keep my PO4 from dropping to 0. When I first started using it I was experiencing the same problem. I was adding 3 ml on 100 gallon net water volume a day with no results. I took a chance and added 10 ml a day for three days and still read o. I stopped carbon dosing, duh, and ended up adding 40 ml to get the PO4 up to .03. I dosed this amount daily and tested daily before feeding. I gradually decreased the amount of NeoPhos as daily testing started to indicate a stable PO4 reading. Now I dose 5 ml twice a week on average to keep the PO4 level I want. I would recommend that if you are carbon dosing to stop, up your dose, test daily at the same time of day before feeding. As I side note I have adjusted my carbon dosing to 3 to 4 times per week as opposed to every day to get the No3 and PO4 balance I'm looking for. As I'm sure you have heard every tank is different. This approach worked for me hopefully some of this info will help you.

 

[AngryOwl]

I use NeoPhos to keep my PO4 from dropping to 0. When I first started using it I was experiencing the same problem. I was adding 3 ml on 100 gallon net water volume a day with no results. I took a chance and added 10 ml a day for three days and still read o. I stopped carbon dosing, duh, and ended up adding 40 ml to get the PO4 up to .03. I dosed this amount daily and tested daily before feeding. I gradually decreased the amount of NeoPhos as daily testing started to indicate a stable PO4 reading. Now I dose 5 ml twice a week on average to keep the PO4 level I want. I would recommend that if you are carbon dosing to stop, up your dose, test daily at the same time of day before feeding. As I side note I have adjusted my carbon dosing to 3 to 4 times per week as opposed to every day to get the No3 and PO4 balance I'm looking for. As I'm sure you have heard every tank is different. This approach worked for me hopefully some of this info will help you.

I don't carbon dose this system. I barely know what that is to be honest lol. On this system I run a skimmer and a DIY Algae scrubber. Nirates were just tested and came up at 4ppm on high & low red sea tests. I'll try a higher dose and see what happens.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I gave that a shot last night, adding 2mL. Waited about an hour or longer and tested phosphates (red sea test) and still got 0 phosphates. Any ideas why? I guess at this point I just need to experiment by adding more. Maybe I'll try 5 mL and see what happens.

In a low phosphate situation, some portion of the added phosphate will bind to calcium carbonate surfaces, lowering the actual amount in the water.

I've not worked through the actual math, but I'll also note that Brightwell does not have a perfect record of potency claims about its products.

 

[AngryOwl]

In a low phosphate situation, some portion of the added phosphate will bind to calcium carbonate surfaces, lowering the actual amount in the water.

I've not worked through the actual math, but I'll also note that Brightwell does not have a perfect record of potency claims about its products.

Any other alternatives after I use up this bottle?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any food grade sodium (or potassium) phosphate should be fine. This page shows several:

https://www.amazon.com/Disodium-Phosphate-FOOD-GRADE-Purity/dp/B013TQVSVQ

 

[AngryOwl]

Any food grade sodium (or potassium) phosphate should be fine. This page shows several:

https://www.amazon.com/Disodium-Phosphate-FOOD-GRADE-Purity/dp/B013TQVSVQ

and what would be the ratio I need to mix this stuff up at?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

and what would be the ratio I need to mix this stuff up at?

The amount you would add would depend on exactly what the chemical was. We can calculate it for you after you get one, but note that such calculations are going to be overestimates of the actual rise for the reason stated above:

"In a low phosphate situation, some portion of the added phosphate will bind to calcium carbonate surfaces, lowering the actual amount in the water."

There are calculators around for some of them:

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

 

[becon776]

vc=vc right? @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[PatW]

I have dosed with analytical grade trisodium phosphate. Using food grade is probably better. I add 2 tablespoons of trisodium phosphate crystals into a gallon of RODI for the phosphate stock solution. A teaspoon of the stock solution in your tank should give you about .02 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

vc=vc right? @Randy Holmes-Farley

Mathematically yes, but I have no idea what you are talking about. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh, volume x concentration. Yes.

 

[becon776]

@Randy Holmes-Farley yup... chem 101. i knew i remembered something before enantiomers and carbon chains.

 

[AngryOwl]

Dang I use to be a serious noob ;Playful

 

[Keen4]

Is there a difference between disodium phosphate and sodium phosphate? The food grade po4 I bought is Disodium

 

[Keen4]

The amount you would add would depend on exactly what the chemical was. We can calculate it for you after you get one, but note that such calculations are going to be overestimates of the actual rise for the reason stated above:

"In a low phosphate situation, some portion of the added phosphate will bind to calcium carbonate surfaces, lowering the actual amount in the water."

There are calculators around for some of them:

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

So I got the Disodium Phosphate powder from amazon per your link that you shared. How should I mix this to dose? How much for my 91 gal. I have 0po4

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I got the Disodium Phosphate powder from amazon per your link that you shared. How should I mix this to dose? How much for my 91 gal. I have 0po4

I answered in another thread this calculator to use:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

Use the potassium phosphate entry as it will be close enough,. Phosphate dosing is not by any means precise as much will bind to rock and sand.

 

[Keen4]

I answered in another thread this calculator to use:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

Use the potassium phosphate entry as it will be close enough,. Phosphate dosing is not by any means precise as much will bind to rock and sand.

Yes thank you- I actually had found it but for some reason I just failed to further read the calculator instructions and totally grossly over dosed my tank LOL. I dumped the whole 3 tbpsn DP + 250ml +rodi into the sump and ended up with milk water. Been doing water changes everyday since then and running po4 blocks. Got the Po4 down to 2ppm so far. My anemones are like ballons! haha what a ride. This experience will def make me a better reefer. (to read lol) And not be dosing at 1am.