Neptune Sky, not happy at all!

[DaneGer21]

Apex, 2 weeks still trying to get it to work.

9/10 times, usually user error; 1/10 times, equipment issue.

 

[DWill]

I beg to differ on the difficult to use factor, almost everything can be set via the tasks setting and it's pretty darn easy, then if you want to programme things further and go for more complicated methods.
Also software wise, while it may appear to not have changed much over the years it's pretty easy to use and easy to read... Plus looking at what they have coming soon it appears there is going to be a front page type view that shows info tiles together. They are always tinkering with updates to improve stability and fix any issues too. My main bug bear with Neptune is the cheaper feel quality of hardware, I don't hate the design aesthetic but it does come across a bit Fisher Price rather than the premium priced product that it is. That being said I still love my Neptune System and have had no issues that have impacted negatively on my experiences and aquarium.

I disagree on the value of the tasks. They are a bandaid on a ancient foundation that is far out of date. Do they work? Most yes. However when thing don’t work together, I.e. set a V/O for maintenance and say, turn the heaters and skimmer off when it on.
Good luck with “fixing” any of it when it doesn’t work.

in the world we live in today, there’s no reason to have a product that requires line by line coding with limited functionality and requires every line of code be in the proper order or things simply don’t work.
Here’s another example of how dated the Apex is.

Setting up my Klir filter on my Hydros I set an alarm to alert me if the filter didn’t roll in 24 hours on the days it was programmed to roll. I set a second alarm to alert me if it rolled longer than it is programmed to roll.

The first alarm took 2-3 minutes on Hydros. It’s not even possible on Apex. Ok, it kinda is, but it’s a lot of long convoluted programming with room for many errors.

The alarm can’t be done either, at least not directly. There is a convoluted work around. With Hydros it was a few seconds to set it up.

The difference. Hydros is a modern more or less WYDIWYG, or at least point and click interface. It’s far more robust and can do many things Apex isn’t capable off. Apex on the other hand is 1980’s (being generous) technology with a bunch of bandaids to try and keep it working.

I get it. Neptune wants to have their own ecosystem. I mean they frequently compare themselves to Apple. That not too smart, it like comparing a 1902 Volkswagen to a 2021 BMW. Add to that you can’t build a ecosystem on cheap Chinese junk or by stealing other companies IP. Especially in a micro industry.

Hopefully BRS puts better management in place and spends money and time addressing core products at Neptune.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

9/10 times, usually user error; 1/10 times, equipment issue.

But why make a product that is so hard for users? When I develop anything, it goes through multiple testing phases and avoid most if not all "possible" user errors. Majority of us are just looking for equipment that is plug and play. If it is frustrating from the start and the answer is "it's your fault", probably not a good product to begin with.

I am also in the processing of switching over all my Neptune to Hydros. Can't wait to get it next week!

 

[Jon's Reef]

That is why there are many different vendors in the market. Different people like different things.

I like the design of the parts. For the core of the system (brain and power bar), I prefer something that has been around for a while. It is stable and the fault points are well known. Auxiliary items like the Trident or SKY are less well developed, but if they fail it doesn't spell disaster. That is what I like. If you like something else, that's cool too.

Neptune has provided the ability to connect 3rd party devices with IoTA, so there is responsibility on the 3rd party to put in some resources. The pay off is access to a huge install base of Apex's.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Majority of us are just looking for equipment that is plug and play.

For the majority of users, any of the 3 (Apex, GHL or Hydros) will work well. Each has things that work better for certain circumstances.

In the specific example above, Klir is owned by Coralvue, so of course it has native support. The filter roller was originally designed as a stand alone unit and functionality above that it is not preventing a standard user (the majority) from using it. If the manufacturer of the roller were interested in supporting their user base in using other controllers they could.

Luckily our relatively small hobby has many nice choices. Just pic the holistic solution that fits best for you.

 

[DaneGer21]

But why make a product that is so hard for users? When I develop anything, it goes through multiple testing phases and avoid most if not all "possible" user errors. Majority of us are just looking for equipment that is plug and play. If it is frustrating from the start and the answer is "it's your fault", probably not a good product to begin with.

I am also in the processing of switching over all my Neptune to Hydros. Can't wait to get it next week!

The Apex system and usability of it has come a long way in even the past 5yrs with the help of the Task walk through.

But I agree 100%, when I was a new user 10+ years ago, it was VERY VERY daunting to say the least.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I hate to break it to you, but LEDs have been the gold standard for almost a decade. I love T5s, but LEDs are not hype and are not garbage. Personally I wouldn’t buy a $900 light from a company without a proven track record of producing quality, time-tested lights, but I also think it’s absurd to expect a single LED array to have the same spread over a 3’ tank as a T5 fixture with two XR15s (especially at 9” over the tank).

This makes no sense to me either. In what world will 1 led fixture have better spread then 2 led fixtures combined with t5s ? I kinda wish I could flick op in his head like my dad does to me when I say something dumb jk

 

[Tamberav]

Ryan said that the ATI T5 bulb was the mark for spectrum. He also said nobody buys T5's and they are collecting dust in their warehouse.

Well once you have a good ATI fixture or T5 fixture and assuming your a T5 person.. you don’t really ever need to buy another fixture. All the parts to fix them are readily available should something go wrong. They are not complicated to fix and maintain for most people. I wouldn’t know how to fix a kessil but I can fix a T5.

Some people change leds and lights more frequently or upgrade to the latest generation or newest tech or spectrum. The OP is an example of one of those.

I could definitely see T5s moving slower out of the warehouse. Not only because they are not the latest hype but once you have a fixture. Your pretty much set for life.

I am guilty of not helping move their stock. Bought both my ATIs used for 200 bux. I would be a lot more careful purchasing used leds as I am more concerned about how they were run and if the fans were properly maintained.. etc but with the T5… oh the reflectors look good and it turns on. Ok good to go!

 

[fuelman]

Talking about the big piece of obviously solid white plastic that fits over the bottom that looks very much out of place? Yes, it was removed. Still not sure how people miss that part

Lol never seen it in person so I didn't want to rip on them, but I seen a few of those posts on Facebook & thought humanity is doomed haha.

 

[rhostam]

If my apex controller didnt look like a giant chunk of crappy plastic, i'd be happy. The eb832 looks like something a hip gamer would buy, i want to swap it out for the old black one.

This product line was developed almost a decade ago. A niche market for a hobby that doesn’t actually require their products. Pretty revolutionary for its time.

As with all items of convenience, they come at a premium precisely because they aren’t required and so sales volume will reflect that. Some companies will develop products and sell at a loss hoping to recover costs through other ecosystem sales (think Microsoft and XBOX). Others want to sell volume to make up for tiny margins (Walmart). While others want as much upfront profit per unit as they can get and sacrifice volume (Restoration Hardware).

They haven’t iterated on any of it since. This and the niche market are the problems.

With some great competitors entering the market with modern hardware, Neptune will have to innovate. With the BRS influence, they almost certainly have to iterate. BRS has an express interest in expanding adoption and I suspect Neptune have recovered their R&D and so we will indeed see a price realignment matching the competition while new iterations are offered at a premium (think iPhone model line up).

This is all good.

I feel people lose perspective of just how cool it is for Neptune to have brought what they did to our industry. However, I’m in agreement (owning an Apex and Apex EL myself) that price point needs to be reevaluated.

 

[anygiven60]

Lol never seen it in person so I didn't want to rip on them, but I seen a few of those posts on Facebook & thought humanity is doomed haha.

Looks like a thin solid white cutting board with some flex in it haha

Well once you have a good ATI fixture or T5 fixture and assuming your a T5 person.. you don’t really ever need to buy another fixture. All the parts to fix them are readily available should something go wrong. They are not complicated to fix and maintain for most people. I wouldn’t know how to fix a kessil but I can fix a T5.

Some people change leds and lights more frequently or upgrade to the latest generation or newest tech or spectrum. The OP is an example of one of those.

I could definitely see T5s moving slower out of the warehouse. Not only because they are not the latest hype but once you have a fixture. Your pretty much set for life.

I am guilty of not helping move their stock. Bought both my ATIs used for 200 bux. I would be a lot more careful purchasing used leds as I am more concerned about how they were run and if the fans were properly maintained.. etc but with the T5… oh the reflectors look good and it turns on. Ok good to go!

My tank has been in place almost three years now and the only things that I have bought for it equipment wise was a new skimmer since the original one burned up, a trident and DOS only because i was gifted a brand new Apex EL and now the Sky. I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify me as someone who just jumps at the newest tech. The lights were getting changed out regardless of what brand I bought. I have my reasons of why I wanted to change them out and why I went with Sky.

If by raising the Sky to 12" and cranking up the intensity still doesn't cover like I would like, I'll just add the two xr15 g4s to each side of the Sky and call it a day.

 

[DWill]

But why make a product that is so hard for users? When I develop anything, it goes through multiple testing phases and avoid most if not all "possible" user errors. Majority of us are just looking for equipment that is plug and play. If it is frustrating from the start and the answer is "it's your fault", probably not a good product to begin with.

I am also in the processing of switching over all my Neptune to Hydros. Can't wait to get it next week!

You’ll be happy. It’s night and day difference in quality and ease of use over Apex

 

[DWill]

For the majority of users, any of the 3 (Apex, GHL or Hydros) will work well. Each has things that work better for certain circumstances.

In the specific example above, Klir is owned by Coralvue, so of course it has native support. The filter roller was originally designed as a stand alone unit and functionality above that it is not preventing a standard user (the majority) from using it. If the manufacturer of the roller were interested in supporting their user base in using other controllers they could.

Luckily our relatively small hobby has many nice choices. Just pic the holistic solution that fits best for you.

There’s no native support for Klir. You simply buy (or make) a power wire and then program it the same you do with Apex.

The difference is the ease of programming between the two. It’s basically the same “code”. It’s just a 1000X easier to do on Hydros because Hydros has a modern up to date UX and operating system. Apex on the other hand is based on ancient 1980’s (again being generous) technology

 

[revhtree]

Hello,

I would like to remind you that topics are meant for discussion and not for flaming or bashing of people, companies or products. Please stick to the facts and refrain from making these types of posts. Name calling, arguing, flaming comments will be removed and offenders will be removed from the thread. State your respectful opinion and move on.

Thanks.

 

[Jon's Reef]

There’s no native support for Klir.

From the hydros website:

 

[rtparty]

I'd disagree with your assertion; tank 48x24.

Don't forget that important 12" tall

99% of tanks out there are 18-24" tall especially in that 48*24 footprint. You put that fixture over a standard 120g and put some high light SPS in it, you're going to have issues

 

[tippin.turtle]

Don't forget that important 12" tall

99% of tanks out there are 18-24" tall especially in that 48*24 footprint. You put that fixture over a standard 120g and put some high light SPS in it, you're going to have issues

I don't know about that... My fixtures are at 13.5 inches off the water surface now with covers that block 20% of the light; so 24 inches I believe would be a non issue. May not be the ideal SPS PAR but certainly enough for growth. I'll test it out in the future when I get a display tank.

 

[DWill]

From the hydros website:

I know that. It’s just the name that’s it. It simply opens the programming dialogue with the name in place. If for some reason you want to change the name to something else you can. You still have to do the “programming” assuming you want to call that on Hydros.

 

[Superlightman]

I have a 65 that had two XR15 gen4 and a 4 bulb T5 setup over it and I switched it out to the Sky. What a joke this thing is. I have it 9 inches above the water line. There is a very obvious hot spot in the middle and the sides of my tank are very much darker than they ever were with the old lighting setup. I'm just not seeing the greatness in this light. I've got it running at 60% on AB+ and it honestly it looks terrible.

my g.,this light must be really crap then, I'm personally in deception about the radion 5g xr30 and xr15 vs my old halides, so this one must be very bad. I think most of the led are just marketing. I have order now a giesemann infinty halides , halides + t5 or+ a led bar will be much better

 

[anygiven60]

my g.,this light must be really crap then, I'm personally in deception about the radion 5g xr30 and xr15 vs my old halides, so this one must be very bad. I think most of the led are just marketing. I have order now a giesemann infinty halides , halides + t5 or+ a led bar will be much better

Once I got the lights hung from the ceiling and at the 12 inch mark the SKY is currently covering my 65 fully. Zero complaints now!