New Tank Disease

munkster

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Sorry if i have posted this in the wrong section.
My father has a new tank and after it had cycled he had added fish and inverts without quarantine or research and almost all of the fish have died.

The inverts were added first:
2 scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp
2 blood red fire shrimp
2 emerald crab
8 red hermit crab
16 snails
1 longspine black urchin (added from old tank)

The first fish to be added were:
1 box fish (1 inch)
1 sailfin tang (1 inch)
1 lawnmower blenny (3 inch)
1 foxface lo (4 inch)

Then the next load of fish:
1 juvenile emperor angelfish (3 inch)
1 powder blue tang (3 inch)
1 blue tang (1 inch)
5 blue/green chromis (1 inch)

The fish were fed a varied diet of nori, frozen mussel, mysis, squid and live brine shrimp/copepods and all seemed to get on fine with the occasional powder blue tang chasing the foxface.
The problems started with the blue tang, after a week it was more reserved and started scratching against the rocks, looking lumpy and had white spots appearing.
Within a few days the sailfin tang, powder blue tang, boxfish and emperior angelfish were showing signs of white dots on the fins or body.
The boxfish was the first to go, its eye had bubbled, fins deteriorated, twitching and covered in bubbles.
The LFS recommended treating the tank with 'eSHa OODINEX WIDE RANGE MARINE TREATMENT' as it was invert friendly. This just seemed to turn the water green and within the next day the sailfin tang and emperor angelfish had died. The powder blue tang passed the next day.
The foxface has brown spots over its body and white around its head and heavily breathing, chromis and blenny seem fine.

I appreciate a lot of mistake shave been made after doing much needed research.
We do have a separate smaller tank which houses a niger trigger and a lemon peel angelfish (these were held back to be added last due to their aggressive nature).
I think the remaining fish (foxface, chromis and blenny) need to be removed and added to the smaller tank with the trigger and lemonpeel and treated with a copper based medicine.
I am unsure as to what to do with the inverts (can they carry the disease) I know copper treatments will kill them.
i then intend to treat the larger display tank with copper and then add the fish from the smaller tank to the larger one.
Moving forward I suggested purchasing all the new fish at once putting them in the smaller tank, treat with copper and quarantine for 8 weeks before transferring to the main tank.

Any advice or suggestions?

Thanks.
 

Old Fritz

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Any medication that says reef safe that treats ich/velvet is lying to you and probably only manages infections. No surprise the tangs and cowfish died. They have a really thin slime coat and catch it easily. Blennies are pretty resilient and so are foxfaces.

I recommend just removing inverts and treating the display tank with copper after removing sand and rocks. You can add the inverts back in after the fallow period. Once the inverts are out of the qt tank then I would start using the qt tank for fish.

You could also treat them in a smaller tank with medication but that seems like a lot of fish for a small tank and on top of that you'll have to keep them in there for a long period of time if you do just go fallow in the display tank.
 

SMSREEF

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I would not treat display with copper if you ever want inverts/corals in it. I would just make sure all fish are out and leave it as is for a long fallow period. Make sure your tanks with fish being treated are in another room away from display tank and that you use none of the same equipment like nets, tubing, buckets etc.

Here is a great thread by @Humblefish
 

Cell

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I'm a bit nervous to ask the size of this tank.
 
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munkster

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I'm a bit nervous to ask the size of this tank.
Large tank 380L small 90L both excluidng sump. i appreciate most fish will outgrow, but when they do they can be exchanged
 
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munkster

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I would not treat display with copper if you ever want inverts/corals in it. I would just make sure all fish are out and leave it as is for a long fallow period. Make sure your tanks with fish being treated are in another room away from display tank and that you use none of the same equipment like nets, tubing, buckets etc.

Here is a great thread by @Humblefish
What do i do with the inverts? Set up a temporary tank just for them whilst display tank goes fallow and the fish in small tank are treated?
 

Eleni18

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How big is the tank? It also seems like an overload too soon. I would put the inverts in the smaller tank with a heater and powerhead and treat the display tank
 
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munkster

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Any medication that says reef safe that treats ich/velvet is lying to you and probably only manages infections. No surprise the tangs and cowfish died. They have a really thin slime coat and catch it easily. Blennies are pretty resilient and so are foxfaces.

I recommend just removing inverts and treating the display tank with copper after removing sand and rocks. You can add the inverts back in after the fallow period. Once the inverts are out of the qt tank then I would start using the qt tank for fish.

You could also treat them in a smaller tank with medication but that seems like a lot of fish for a small tank and on top of that you'll have to keep them in there for a long period of time if you do just go fallow in the display tank.
Ok think I understand, remove fish and inverts from display tank into small tank. Let the display go fallow. Add back the inverts. Treat fish small tank with medication. Then transfer to display. Any new fish to be added use small tank for quarantine and treat with mdeication?
 
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munkster

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How big is the tank? It also seems like an overload too soon. I would put the inverts in the smaller tank with a heater and powerhead and treat the display tank
380L for display and small/old tank is 90L. I agree with the overload, but as it isn't my tank and my parents they didn't research and got too excited with adding fish, lesson learnt I hope.
 

Cell

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Trigger in a 20. All that tang in a 100...
 

AcroNem

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This was probably Velvet, or at least it sounds like it possibly with an infection. Going forward, your plan should be to treat your remaining fish, if any, with an actual medication. What your LFS sold to you is total garbage, there is no useful in tank treatment for these parasites. So probably CP or copper, and you should not treat the display tank. Quarantine should be done in a separate, sterile system with non porous items (ie PVC for hiding places, no substrate/rocks, no sponges or filter media etc). Most of your inverts cannot "carry" fish parasites so while you are going fallow in your display they can stay, fallow only means without fish. Your treatment period for copper should be 21 days, but your fish will be in quarantine for the remainder of the fallow period, which you'll hear anywhere from 30, 34-76 days. Longer is better. After that, and fish are showing no signs of disease or infection throughout that time after treatment you may reintroduce them. Following a quarantine protocol for every addition after (inverts included) will help ensure the system stays clean.
 
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munkster

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This was probably Velvet, or at least it sounds like it possibly with an infection. Going forward, your plan should be to treat your remaining fish, if any, with an actual medication. What your LFS sold to you is total garbage, there is no useful in tank treatment for these parasites. So probably CP or copper, and you should not treat the display tank. Quarantine should be done in a separate, sterile system with non porous items (ie PVC for hiding places, no substrate/rocks, no sponges or filter media etc). Most of your inverts cannot "carry" fish parasites so while you are going fallow in your display they can stay, fallow only means without fish. Your treatment period for copper should be 21 days, but your fish will be in quarantine for the remainder of the fallow period, which you'll hear anywhere from 30, 34-76 days. Longer is better. After that, and fish are showing no signs of disease or infection throughout that time after treatment you may reintroduce them. Following a quarantine protocol for every addition after (inverts included) will help ensure the system stays clean.
Thanks this response has given me a clearer understanding. As I have 2 tanks, display tank which is infected and a small 90L tank which houses 2 fish live rock sand etc. Can i use the 90L tank as a quarantine tank? The tank has live rock and sand and will be only be used for quarantine until the display tank is fully stocked?
 

AcroNem

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Sand and rock is a no-go for quarantine/medications. I would also bet/suggest the fish in there should be treated as well.
 

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