New tank issues - need advice

[fresh2reef]

Tank 120 Minireef – aqua one with upgraded equipment

Total water volume minus rock, sand etc 136 Litres with Sump

Aprox 4 months old, tank cycled before adding livestock, then did every few weeks. Everything was doing great until 28/12/21, Contains:

2 clowns (Now doing badly swimming at bottom of tank slowly and off food since I corrected the calcium, see below)

1 B Cardinal (doing fine)

1 Algae Benny (somewhat off his food)

1 Royal Gamma (doing fine)

4 blue leg and 4 red leg hermits

A number of small snails

1 cleaner shrimp (doing badly hanging round on sand bed since yesterday)

A number of soft corals frags 8 in total. Only the 3 Zoa’s doing ok)

1 6inch mushroom

1 brain coral seems to be doing ok

2 Hammers dying if not dead

1 small frogspawn very partical open

Water at this point was (28.12.21), tank suddenly turned cloudy,

10.2 DKh

Calcium unreadably low

Ng2 0

NG 3 9.7 (5 days before this was getting o test reading for nitrate and phosphate) – I had turned the light down in the refugum and rose over 5 days to 9.7)

Phosphate 10

Amonia 5

Salinity about 33ppm

Just corals changing/worsening at this point

3rd Jan over next 2 days adjust calcium, took 350ppm to correct and dropping 45ppm per day corrected daily

This is when the clowns started becoming poorly

On average now

5th Jan did 40% water change and took loads of gunk from bottom

Salinity now rose to 35ppm (getting water premixed from local fish shop)

DKh average now 8.7

Nitrates are very slowly dropping but currently 9ppm (I have raised the lights back up to which took it zero) but still high. Phosphate was around 10

Calcium 432

Ammonia 2.5-5 (somewhere in between), slowly dropping.

Ng2 0

PH 8

Magnesium was reading above 1500 (would not read on the salfert teat kit)

Dosing pump on order to get the dosing more stable and more rock coming to get ammonia down)

I think there brown dino’s present, running charcoal through the fluid reactor (but these are not multiplying anymore remaining stable)

Skimmer working great and lots of rock (was 3kg of live and 8kg of dry rock).


Any advice what is causing the problems and how to save the fish and corals? Any advice would be greatly apricated.

I realise there has been a lot of swings in the water parameters and once this is stable will this solve the problems or am I missing something?

 

[lazlodawg]

The ammonia is a problem. You need to act quickly to neutralize it! Use something like Seachem Prime as soon as possible. Do a double dose with Prime as it is not harmful to your inhabitants and you want to detoxify the ammonia immediately.
Please research appropriate water quality parameters for these poor fish!

 

[X-37B]

Well first obvious issue is ammonia. After cycle their should be no measurable amounts of it.
So address and fix that first and verify its acuctualy at that level.
Also pick yojr parameters and focus on keeping them in range.
Dosing by hand is recommended so you get an understanding of what your system is doing.
Stability is paramount.
Temp 77-80
SG 1.026-1.027
Alk 8 max
Ca 400- 420
Mag 1300-1350
Po4 <.1
No3 <5
These are good parameters that I follow and work for all reef environments, imo.

 

[fresh2reef]

The ammonia is a problem. You need to act quickly to neutralize it! Use something like Seachem Prime as soon as possible. Do a double dose with Prime as it is not harmful to your inhabitants and you want to detoxify the ammonia immediately.
Please research appropriate water quality parameters for these poor fish!

Hi

Thanks for replying.

Already using prime to neutralize it and have done since it raised. I went from 0 to current very quickly and not sure why it suddenly changed. I have kept fresh water aquariums for years and know the importance of monitoring this.

However new to reefing. Any thing else you think may help.

I have 2 litres of matrix in the sump which has been in there since day 1 (I did a fishless cycle and did not add until all amonia/nitrite was 0)

 

[fresh2reef]

Well first obvious issue is ammonia. After cycle their should be no measurable amounts of it.
So address and fix that first and verify its acuctualy at that level.
Also pick yojr parameters and focus on keeping them in range.
Dosing by hand is recommended so you get an understanding of what your system is doing.
Stability is paramount.
Temp 77-80
SG 1.026-1.027
Alk 8 max
Ca 400- 420
Mag 1300-1350
Po4 <.1
No3 <5
These are good parameters that I follow and work for all reef environments, imo.

Hi

Thank you
temp is steady at 25.4c.
dosing by hand currently, but still learning
my mag is hign dont know why? - do you know how this efects the tank?

 

[lazlodawg]

Do a massive water change with RODI source water.
Now a lot of people will want to know what test kits you're using and if they are expired. This can affect your readings significantly.
It seems like your bio-load is too high for your existing bio-filter to process. We need to quickly establish a bio-filter to handle the waste being produced.

Edited because you posted a lot of the info I was asking about and I missed it!

 

[131696]

ammonia need bacteria to get rid of it dose bacteria then concentrate on getting rid alot lower phosphates asap ,I think you added to many fish at 1 time to have a spike like that take it slow

 

[X-37B]

Hi

Thank you
temp is steady at 25.4c.
dosing by hand currently, but still learning
my mag is hign dont know why? - do you know how this efects the tank?

Well verify po4. If 10 did you mean .10.
Check you current salt mix for mag. If its high then a WC will just keep it high.

What test kits are you using?

 

[fresh2reef]

Okay, now some advice if you for some reason cannot get something like Seachem Prime RIGHT NOW. Do a massive water change with RODI source water. No RODI? Use distilled. Make sure you test the saltwater for appropriate parameters before doing the water change.
Now a lot of people will want to know what test kits you're using and if they are expired. This can affect your readings significantly. Knowing where you get your water would be helpful as well. Do you use rodi? Tap water? Buy it from a store premixed? Etc.
It seems like your bio-load is too high for your existing bio-filter to process. Your cycling method used would be helpful to know. How much rock and sand are in the tank? Did you add bottled bacteria? What kind? Do you have any left? If so, add it to the tank. If not, you need to get more. We need to quickly establish a bio-filter to handle the waste being produced.

HI

Thank you.

Using prime to neutralise Have done since ammonia rose.
Salt water bought premixed and they use RO water from LFS. RO water used in auto top up as well.
Added the live stock over a period of 3 months after the initial cycle.
test kits all new and indate.
Amonia test kit API
Dkh & nitrate Hanna

When i did fishless cycle 4 months ago added steady ammonia to tank and let everything cycle until 0

 

[lazlodawg]

High magnesium would not be the issue here. Ammonia and phosphate are probably the root cause. Are your phosphate readings in parts per million or parts per billion? What test kits are you using?

 

[fresh2reef]

Well verify po4. If 10 did you mean .10.
Check you current salt mix for mag. If its high then a WC will just keep it high.

What test kits are you using?

 

[fresh2reef]

Amonia test kit API
Dkh & nitrate Hanna
phosphate API and my mistake wrote it down wrong should have said 0.25ppm

 

[ying yang]

And look for something dead as will keep adding to the problem then ripple effect kicks in

 

[Cell]

Have you done large water change since dosing Prime? My historical understanding is that it binds ammonia but does not remove it so you will still see it in your testing. But I think more recently whether or not it even binds ammonia has come into question.

If your ammonia truly hit 5.0ppm, your fish and snails are dead so I don't fully believe that measurement. The cloudy water may also suggest a potential bacterial bloom and subsequent low O2 issue.

The low nutrients can explain the coral health.

@brandon429 thoughts/clarifications?

 

[ying yang]

Even on your 136 total water volume that's 36 gallons and I think general guideline is 1 lb-1.5 lb of rock per gallon ( not written in stone " pun intended " ha ha) so 1lb = 454g so nearly half a kg so you got 11kg of rock so that's like same as 20lbs of rock roughly so under general guideline of 1lb per gallon .
But just seen you ordered more rock.
Some will say in a tank that cycled the bacteria will never let amnonia rise and always keep control of it and api test kits give mis reads 99% of time,but if you didn't aclimatise some snails for instance properley or was just in bad health and they died and cuc didn't do job could of started ripple effect and as one dies it affects water quality in your new tank more then causes another animal to die and so on so if was me I would be trying getting parameters in your target ranges and doing an inventory on my livestock to make sure all still there and remove any dead as your tank very new.

Wish you best of luck and that p04 reading on api of 0.25 that could be anywhere between 0 and 0.25 as doesn't read anything inbetween

 

[Rmckoy]

Amonia test kit API
Dkh & nitrate Hanna
phosphate API and my mistake wrote it down wrong should have said 0.25ppm

As for ammonia . Api test kit is common for showing false positive of .25

api phosphates kit is not accurate at all .
To solve this issue the only way to take control is to mix your own water .
buy a rodi water system . They’re not expensive in terms of guaranteeing water quality .
Buy a bucket of salt that mixes to the desired parameters .
The lfs water can …..
1) be mixed with different salts or a combination of multiple salts
2) use distilled or even tap water to fill jugs
Or Any possibility out of your control .

you will continue having water quality issues as long as someone is mixing your water !

 

[Cell]

24 lbs of rock in 36G is sufficient.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

above is all great advise, I would say, in a nutshell, it seems like a case of too much too fast. I would suggest to be more patient, leave the tank alone to balance itself out for a couple of months, its still a brand new tank at only 4 months.

 

[fresh2reef]

Thanks everyone for replying really apricate the help

 

[brandon429]

Please post the actual ammonia reading so we can see the picture vs get the number relayed to us make sure to fill test tube accurately and per directions wait however long they say to wait before taking the pic of the ammonia

curious to see what degree of color it is


agreed w cell above all reefs in this condition described are in the .00x levels of nh3 no where near 5 ppm or even tan converted .08