New to Vortech and Mobius not impressed with Mobius at all.

[BeanAnimal]

I am a GHL user, but decided against their stream pumps in favor of vortech's simply due to the cordless aspect.
I just got two two MP10s.

Unless I am missing something blatant (possible) I am not overly impressed with the flexibility of Mobius.

It looks like I can set a schedule for each MP10 independently, but that schedule is limited to (2) modes only. Not a deal breaker by any means but I would think that an "advanced" app would be able to have more than two schedule points. Am I missing something?

I may hack together BLE control with a microcontroller, so that I can use the GHL 0-10v out to control them, but not counting on it. I am just not that into DIY anymore and prefer simplicity.

Also - I find the constant and random disconnects using Mobius to be somewhat annoying. Thank goodness that this is two power heads and not 5-10 Mobius devices, I would go insane.

Anyway - the cordless option is nice, and these are my first Vortechs. Sad that they won't let us run old firmware to allow 3rd party control. Pretty lame honestly. (That goes for GHL and everyone else that refuses to allow 3rd party integration). Would love for these vendors to build 3rd Party APIs. It would boost sales, not dilute them.

 

[DrkNMighty]

You should be able to run multiple modes throughout the day. I have my MP40s set to run 4 different modes (constant, reef crest, gyre, nutrient transport) throughout the day. You should be able to just drag different modes out to the timeline.

 

[spsick]

It is frustrating there is no manual.

I have more than 2 modes running on mine and have not had any issues with Mobius since an update a year or so ago. I am an iOS user.

My concerns with Vortechs have been limited to dry side issues. I don’t know if I would pony up $500 a piece if I had to do it again but I convince myself I did well by buying American made products.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ok - was able to drag another mode over. Clicking DONE un-selects the current schedule zone and allows another to be dragged.

Thanks - I almost walked away and left it as is with just two scheduled modes.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I got Mobius setup - Programmed the schedule on one and set the other to "child" for the whole schedule.

The "child" now has a green pulsing dial and only 1 output intensity LED is let. I assume that is normal? The documentation is insanely bad, and the videos not much better. What an honest to goodness halfassed effort for a mature product and a reminder why I don't buy their brands.

The master dial is orange, even though it is in transition mode... so not sure what that means either.

Also not clear on what the GPH is when you drill onto the schedule ring screen. It says 1816.7 but the dashboard shows what I think is the instantaneous GPH.

 

[thecodingart]

Yeah, so the documentation for Mobius is terrible. Once you “get it” it’s pretty simple though.

Unsure if you’re trying to use everything in the Apex Fusion interface or Mobius app (both different).

To use in Fusion, you have to go under devices, tap the MXM module tile, and select the items to bridge.

From there, Fusion makes it a breeze to create a schedule. You can add all the fluctuating points you’d like using either presets with integrated functionality or just variable rate speeds you set.

Mobius should do the same thing in there UI, it’s just a bit more unintuitive. It would be under devices where you edit items and it’s more of a drag type of thing into a timeline and tweak situation.

 

[thecodingart]

I’ve personally been curious about GHL myself, but the type of integrations (like the above) are mostly lacking for the lights and for the pumps I use — or are slowly being locked out.

I’m not necessarily unhappy with Apex atm, but more of the outside eco systems do not offer what I want from an E2E product.

My only gripe with Mobius is the sheer unintuitiveness and lack of documentation around it. When you have a connectivity issue — it’s not fun.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah, so the documentation for Mobius is terrible. Once you “get it” it’s pretty simple though.

Unsure if you’re trying to use everything in the Apex Fusion interface or Mobius app (both different).

To use in Fusion, you have to go under devices, tap the MXM module tile, and select the items to bridge.

From there, Fusion makes it a breeze to create a schedule. You can add all the fluctuating points you’d like using either presets with integrated functionality or just variable rate speeds you set.

Mobius should do the same thing in there UI, it’s just a bit more unintuitive. It would be under devices where you edit items and it’s more of a drag type of thing into a timeline and tweak situation.

I don't (and never will have an Apex). Being honest, I don't care for the company or products and my impression of Ecotech is not as favorable as it once was given what I see as a decline in quality since the ownership change. The state of the documentation surrounding all of this kind of reinforces my impression. Not that I think GHLs documentation is leaps and bounds better.

As for mobius, I was able to set the schedule that i wanted. I am just not clear on how it translates to the LEDs in master/child mode or what the GPH numbers in various parts of the UI are referencing.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’ve personally been curious about GHL myself, but the type of integrations (like the above) are mostly lacking for the lights and for the pumps I use — or are slowly being locked out.

I’m not necessarily unhappy with Apex atm, but more of the outside eco systems do not offer what I want from an E2E product.

My only gripe with Mobius is the sheer unintuitiveness and lack of documentation around it. When you have a connectivity issue — it’s not fun.

The GHL stuff is solid for the most part. I think the GHL dashboard is unadulterated trash that needs to be sent back to the year 2000... And i think that GHL as a company is very stubborn "our way or the highway" but the hardware, logic and control options are pretty solid. Ignoring my issues with Bertram quality proposition, I am not impressed with the build quality of most of the apex stuff or the fact that they spend more time on non-functional artsy fartsy (IMHO butt ugly and awkward) design aspects that don't follow any standard form factor, than they do modularity, function or durability.

Anyway - I had Radion G2s and they were OK for their time though again, any materials engineer would have told them not to use the soft rubber coating that they did on the G1-G3 or whatever. It ALWAYS turns to goo... It make me wonder what other poor decisions were made with products like the Vortech and/or what corners have been cut to increase margin since the merger.... Maybe none. I guess time will tell with my MP10s

I think the magnet drive is wonderful and that is the only reason that I stepped out of the GHL ecosystem or other 0-10v controllable stream or gyre systems compatible with GHL.

The state of this product's documentation is an absolute joke.

 

[Mikeltee]

Ecotech are electrical engineers not software engineers. We are lucky that Apex is compatible. Mobius and MyAI sucks! Nothing compares to their hardware though. Do you want to pay 20% more for a more simple interface? You are welcome to go to Amazon and pick up a plug and play Jaebo every year if you wish. My MP40s are from 2008. My Hydra 3x 52s and 2x Hydra 26s are 10 years old. The two times I had trouble with the Hydras they were fixed for free 8 years past the warranty.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ecotech are electrical engineers not software engineers.

You hire or contract the talent that you need to bring a product to market. The same as you hire a technical writer to build your documentation.

Do you want to pay 20% more for a more simple interface?

I have no problem with the price of a product reflecting its quality.

My MP40s are from 2008. My Hydra 3x 52s and 2x Hydra 26s are 10 years old. The two times I had trouble with the Hydras they were fixed for free 8 years past the warranty.

Time will tell if the new generation of Vortechs are reliable or if compromises were made. I don't fight to pick (for the most part) with the Ecotech hardware. I had Radion G2 and my only real complaint from an engineering standpoint was the soft rubber texture that turned to goo and the steel painted fan guards... Poor design choices but overall a fairly solid engineering design with decent heat management and board layouts. The software was not bad for its time but sadly never got any better.

 

[VintageReefer]

You hire or contract the talent that you need to bring a product to market. The same as you hire a technical writer to build your documentation.

1000% agree. That’s how companies should, and typically do handle this.

Eco tech could even make a public post saying we need someone to make a manual for our software. They would get people probably willing to do it for free

I do love the hardware. I have a mp40 and mp10 - from 10 years and 7 years ago. I’ve replaced one dry side and one wet side.

They don’t support the app. They are wifi linked with each other. I put master in feed, the other goes in feed. I turn master off, the other goes off. When running their mode they are synced according to the program for the mode. No dumb app, just hardware that works with matching hardware.

 

[Reef.]

Yeah bit of a struggle to set up, not very intuitive…yes the one light means its in child mode.

Warning, when you switch of the parent (could be both not totally sure) the child turns off too, same for turning back on, I didn’t realise this and a fish had swam into the powerhead, luckily it managed to get out before the PH was at full speed…oh and when you turn one off the other sometimes doesn't turn off but goes into full power, which for a small tank is not good…I guess there is a system to what happens when you turn one on or off but I haven’t worked it out yet.

 

[cilyjr]

Being honest, I don't care for the company or products and my impression of Ecotech is not as favorable as it once was given what I see as a decline in quality since the ownership change. The state of the documentation surrounding all of this kind of reinforces my impression. Not that I think GHLs documentation is leaps and bounds better.

Having four ecotech MP40s, two were bought in around 2008 and two bought last year, I see no real differences in the two pumps. I have not taken apart the control modules and don't plan to unless there is a real problem.

I use an aqua controller Apex but would probably not if something else existed when I got into their family. I could list my issues with the product but as I started with an aqua controller 3 in 2002 there really wasn't anything else back then.

As far as being bought by Bertram, I think ecotech has gone down a bit while Neptune systems has gone up as far as customer service is concerned.

Let's not forget that the apex comprehensive manual was written by a hobbyist user that they decided to adopt eventually (and hire? Correct me if I am wrong. Russ M)

I could just feel the eye roll when I would email them a question in the old days. I think that they're support staff has gotten friendlier and more helpful. While EcoTech has gone the other direction. Their original staff was so helpful and went out of the way make sure you were satisfied with the product.

I think the documentation, or lack thereof is more of a societal change that us old people (40 plus) need to get used to. Nothing comes with any clear instructions anymore. The emphasis on "learn by doing" is great in theory. I guess it saves a few cents in printing paper manuals.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah bit of a struggle to set up, not very intuitive…yes the one light means its in child mode.

Warning, when you switch of the parent (could be both not totally sure) the child turns off too, same for turning back on, I didn’t realise this and a fish had swam into the powerhead, luckily it managed to get out before the PH was at full speed…oh and when you turn one off the other sometimes doesn't turn off but goes into full power, which for a small tank is not good…I guess there is a system to what happens when you turn one on or off but I haven’t worked it out yet.

Mobius, being BLE is only a programmer for the Vortech's. It does not actively "control" them, when you are connected on your mobile device, it pushes your choices to the controller(s) (in real time) but "Save" pushes the program to the controller(s).

That said, the LEDs on my Vortechs just make no sense. I have one parent and one child (that nomenclature is bothersome) with the child overlay being 24 hours. The lights never match, but they do change on both. I don't care, but am not convinced that they are doing what the program says they are doing.

I assume they have a super capacitor or battery to keep the timeclock somewhat accurate. I am curious to see what the drift actually is. The whole thing is puzzling and I am too lazy to take one apart and look at the board.

The more you folks post about this and that and the quirks the more I find the documentation situation beyond laughable for a mature product and company. It is ludicrous and they don't give two rats behinds.

 

[cilyjr]

They would get people probably willing to do it for free

Yup, and that's a problem. Next thing you know, your employers are expecting it.

Too many people willing to " help out" where a professional should be paid, empowers corporations not workers.

If you spend the time in the effort figuring out how to get something to work properly, put it on YouTube and monetize it for yourself.

 

[thecodingart]

Mobius, being BLE is only a programmer for the Vortech's. It does not actively "control" them, when you are connected on your mobile device, it pushes your choices to the controller(s) (in real time) but "Save" pushes the program to the controller(s).

That said, the LEDs on my Vortechs just make no sense. I have one parent and one child (that nomenclature is bothersome) with the child overlay being 24 hours. The lights never match, but they do change on both. I don't care, but am not convinced that they are doing what the program says they are doing.

I assume they have a super capacitor or battery to keep the timeclock somewhat accurate. I am curious to see what the drift actually is. The whole thing is puzzling and I am too lazy to take one apart and look at the board.

The more you folks post about this and that and the quirks the more I find the documentation situation beyond laughable for a mature product and company. It is ludicrous and they don't give two rats behinds.

Yeah. I’m new to this hobby and a software engineer by trade.

When I was told certain things were “complicated”, what I learned was this community’s perspective on what’s “complicated”. I wouldn’t consider anything about the hardware or software advanced and have personally been baffled by the unjustified price points which are clearly there just to fill in a market because they can unchallenged.

The only “complicated” thing I’ve found is having to figure out the unknown myself through trial/error/etc.

It’s absurd and a frustrating time burning process. Sort of speaks to what the “standards” are in this hobby .

 

[Reef.]

Mobius, being BLE is only a programmer for the Vortech's. It does not actively "control" them, when you are connected on your mobile device, it pushes your choices to the controller(s) (in real time) but "Save" pushes the program to the controller(s).

That said, the LEDs on my Vortechs just make no sense. I have one parent and one child (that nomenclature is bothersome) with the child overlay being 24 hours. The lights never match, but they do change on both. I don't care, but am not convinced that they are doing what the program says they are doing.

I assume they have a super capacitor or battery to keep the timeclock somewhat accurate. I am curious to see what the drift actually is. The whole thing is puzzling and I am too lazy to take one apart and look at the board.

The more you folks post about this and that and the quirks the more I find the documentation situation beyond laughable for a mature product and company. It is ludicrous and they don't give two rats behinds.

Keep in mind too that when the percentage they run at drops below around 35% they stop running in the mode set, then just run a constant speed, which adds to the confusion. This might be the reason you see they are not doing what you think they should.

I ended up dropping linking them together, just run them separately, got one ramping up when the other is ramping down, stops the issues I described above.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Keep in mind too that when the percentage they run at drops below around 35% they stop running in the mode set, then just run a constant speed, which adds to the confusion. This might be the reason you see they are not doing what you think they should.

I ended up dropping linking them together, just run them separately, got one ramping up when the other is ramping down, stops the issues I described above.

That certainly does explain part of it. Did I miss the 35% number min mode limit in the docs or interface, or is this more user acquired and passed on knowledge?

I was also a bit disheartened to realize that the transitions do not "blend" one mode to the next but rather stop the mode and apply straight flow in a linear sinusoidal or ramped transition until the endpoint is reached then the new mode starts.

 

[Reef.]

That certainly does explain part of it. Did I miss the 35% number min mode limit in the docs or interface, or is this more user acquired and passed on knowledge?

I was also a bit disheartened to realize that the transitions do not "blend" one mode to the next but rather stop the mode and apply straight flow in a linear sinusoidal or ramped transition until the endpoint is reached then the new mode starts.

I didn’t get that from the manual, it’s not in there I far as I can see…same as you, wondered why I was getting a constant speed, played around with it a bit, like you the lights didn't make sense, wondered why they weren’t going up or down in reefcrest mode.