Absolutely insanely abysmal documentation - Vortech & Mobius

[BeanAnimal]

Hey Ecotech (Bertram or whoever actually pulls the strings) I am honestly stunned. The vortech pumps hit the market in 2005. I never owned one until 2 days ago when I purchased two second hand current generation MP10s.

Sure tossing them in the water and making them spin is easy enough but the "user manual" that comes with them and the online PDF are almost useless for anything more than an overview of the functionality and even at that are pretty thin. One has to go search videos that are honestly almost as vague and useless and don't really cover most of the "advanced" functions.

Then comes Mobius - sure it is easy enough to get the app to recognize the MP10s, but where is the user manual that actually explains scheduling or for that matter why does it not come with the Vortech itself? I mean it the model number has "M" for Mobius in the name and you have ensured that Mobius or your controller are the only means of control. Why are there not detailed Mobius instructions with the pumps???? Why are the lazy half-done videos not even linked properly to your PDFs?? Where is the documentation that explains the actual interface, the GPH nomenclature on the main dashboard vs that in the drill down, etc.?

What does the the percentage in child anti-sync mode or for that matter child sync mode mean and where is that explained? Is it the percentage of the pump itself or the parent. In anti-sync is it a percentage of the inverse, etc.?

Where is the explanation of the controllers LED colors when using Mobius? It appears that the dial on the child turns pulsing green with only 1 intensity LED illuminated and the parent, well the colors there don't match the "manually set" mode colors either. Where is any of this explained?

Maybe all if this is explained somewhere and I am just missing it, but that in and of itself would simply indicate that your documentation is extremely poorly organized. Why should a customer have to actually search so hard for basic information that should be in easy to find documentation? Why does one have to scour your online properties, reef forums and numerous YouTube videos for basic information that should be part of the standard documentation?

Sure, most of us are smart enough to figure it all out via trial and error, but you (honestly) should be ashamed at how poor the documentation is for an 18 year old product line.

In the scheme of things, a technical writer is not expensive.

My two cents... not that you care because it appears that over the course of 18 years you haven't bothered to write a real user guide.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Big Duck (now Bigger D*ck) little pond... you don't have to. Wait till you get a Versa...
No you are not an idiot... Wait a second...
It shouldn’t matter if you are an idiot or not...
Yes, it would be nice to have a PDF on utilizing the capability of their products. Will it happen? Yes, After you figured it out.

 

[Mikeltee]

Child is phase. 180 degrees does the opposite. 100% is 100% of the parent so if your parent is 40%, your child is 40% when set to 100%. There is not much to an MP40. You spin the wetside to take the cage off. Their error codes and reset methods are published. I'm not sure what the problem is... Use an Apex... their software sucks.

 

[Mikeltee]

-- Reset MP40 --
Mode + Set 12 - Red White Blue
Mode 1 - Purple Red
Set 2 - Green (restart)
Mode + Set 12 - Red White Blue
Set 2 Tap - Blue Yellow

 

[GlassMunky]

mean it the model number has "M" for Mobius in the name and you have ensured that Mobius or your controller are the only means of control.

did you legitimately think the “M” in MP10 meant mobius?

 

[GlassMunky]

Hey Ecotech (Bertram or whoever actually pulls the strings) I am honestly stunned. The vortech pumps hit the market in 2005. I never owned one until 2 days ago when I purchased two second hand current generation MP10s.

Sure tossing them in the water and making them spin is easy enough but the "user manual" that comes with them and the online PDF are almost useless for anything more than an overview of the functionality and even at that are pretty thin. One has to go search videos that are honestly almost as vague and useless and don't really cover most of the "advanced" functions.

Then comes Mobius - sure it is easy enough to get the app to recognize the MP10s, but where is the user manual that actually explains scheduling or for that matter why does it not come with the Vortech itself? I mean it the model number has "M" for Mobius in the name and you have ensured that Mobius or your controller are the only means of control. Why are there not detailed Mobius instructions with the pumps???? Why are the lazy half-done videos not even linked properly to your PDFs?? Where is the documentation that explains the actual interface, the GPH nomenclature on the main dashboard vs that in the drill down, etc.?

What does the the percentage in child anti-sync mode or for that matter child sync mode mean and where is that explained? Is it the percentage of the pump itself or the parent. In anti-sync is it a percentage of the inverse, etc.?

Where is the explanation of the controllers LED colors when using Mobius? It appears that the dial on the child turns pulsing green with only 1 intensity LED illuminated and the parent, well the colors there don't match the "manually set" mode colors either. Where is any of this explained?

Maybe all if this is explained somewhere and I am just missing it, but that in and of itself would simply indicate that your documentation is extremely poorly organized. Why should a customer have to actually search so hard for basic information that should be in easy to find documentation? Why does one have to scour your online properties, reef forums and numerous YouTube videos for basic information that should be part of the standard documentation?

Sure, most of us are smart enough to figure it all out via trial and error, but you (honestly) should be ashamed at how poor the documentation is for an 18 year old product line.

In the scheme of things, a technical writer is not expensive.

My two cents... not that you care because it appears that over the course of 18 years you haven't bothered to write a real user guide.

So you’re upset that you bought second hand equipment without researching how it’s used and then it’s someone else fault?
Got it. Seems on brand for you.

I’m no ecotech fanboy, I actually hate them myself, but this is entirely on you.

 

[Doctorgori]

You wrote that complaint in English, I wasn’t aware that a company can manufacture products and speak English at the same time

 

[BeanAnimal]

did you legitimately think the “M” in MP10 meant mobius?

I clearly acknowledged that the "M"P40 has been around since 2005, and Mobius is new in the last few years. So no, clearly I don't think the "M" in MP10 means "Mobius". If I had to guess the "M" is magnetic and "P" is Pump.

If you look at the new model numbers that have a lowercase "m" in the trailing portion of the model number meaning (according to Ecotech) "Mobius Ready".

Maybe if you tried a little less hard to clown people, you wouldn't look like a clown yourself.

So you’re upset that you bought second hand equipment without researching how it’s used and then it’s someone else fault?
Got it. Seems on brand for you.

I am not upset. I am making a statement about what I feel is a disservices to all customers.

The Vortech pumps being new or second hand has absolutely nothing to do with the sparsity of the documentation included with the product or available online.

The word "blame" does not apply here.

I am flat out saying that documentation surrounding the Ecotech Marine Vortech pumps the the Mobius control product (at least as it relates to Vortech) is, in my opinion absolutely abysmal.

"On Brand" - Let's talk about that. Your MO is running around here trying to dunk on people, but ironically (as above) you tend to own yourself more often than not because your mouth runs faster than your wit.

Edit: You (laughably) were given a "hospitality award" - start acting like it. Your ONLY contributions to this thread amount to unprovoked attacks of one form or another, including the childish laughing emojis on all of my comments. I am not upset (by any means whatsoever) but rather simply astonished at your lack of self awareness and your demeanor towards others.

 

[BeanAnimal]

-- Reset MP40 --
Mode + Set 12 - Red White Blue
Mode 1 - Purple Red
Set 2 - Green (restart)
Mode + Set 12 - Red White Blue
Set 2 Tap - Blue Yellow

I don't think that has anything to do with Mobius control.

Though, I wonder if you could setup parent/child on the controllers and then only add the parent to mobius to set the schedule? You would lose insight (not that it matters) into the child from Mobius.

As is the theme of this thread, Ecotech has none of this documented (at least that I can find).

 

[Reefing102]

Just playing devils advocate, I don’t run anything ecotech, but perhaps they were trying to save money and have someone else (a hobbyist for example) do all the work for them, do a nice write up, the whole 9 yards and then just link to it. That hasn’t happened, so we now have the issue we have here.

With that said, I have found it’s not just Ecotech. A lot of the newer equipment I’ve used recently has abysmal instructions or just enough to get the thing running.

 

[Reefering1]

I'm still trying to get my new mp60qd's to be found by mobius(ok I given up), never was able to connect since new(about 6 months). Smh

 

[BeanAnimal]

Child is phase. 180 degrees does the opposite. 100% is 100% of the parent so if your parent is 40%, your child is 40% when set to 100%. There is not much to an MP40. You spin the wetside to take the cage off. Their error codes and reset methods are published. I'm not sure what the problem is... Use an Apex... their software sucks.

Any questions that I asked where rhetorical for the most part. I understand what parent and child are and what phase or anti-phase are and can assume that the child "percentage" is that of the parent, not the pump itself. The point being made was that most of this is not actually well documented and left to to the end user to sort out, especially when it comes to the mobius integration and how that differs or works with the controller run programming.

As I said, most folks are smart enough to sort it all out on their own, but that is not an excuse for lack of documentation.

As it is, the "color" of the dial on these things is predictable when they are run by themselves. Once mobius is running them, things appear to not match. One can not really "look" at the impeller to see if it is really doing what mobius says, so....

 

[BeanAnimal]

Just playing devils advocate, I don’t run anything ecotech, but perhaps they were trying to save money and have someone else (a hobbyist for example) do all the work for them, do a nice write up, the whole 9 yards and then just link to it. That hasn’t happened, so we now have the issue we have here.

With that said, I have found it’s not just Ecotech. A lot of the newer equipment I’ve used recently has abysmal instructions or just enough to get the thing running.

Save money or laziness... I agree.

It is not unreasonable for a community to build on knowledge or documentation, especially in edge cases or complex scenarios, but that does not excuse the lack of simple facts being assembled in one place.

LED codes
LED status explanations (not part of them, but ALL of them)
Software functionality, not just part of it.
Interface legends, explanations
Etc.

People can form their own opinions. I think the documentation is extremely poor in this case.

I do agree that poor documentation is a widespread problem and not just owned by Ecotech. GHL (for example) has pages and pages of documentation, but (again my opinion) a lot of it is very poorly presented, even if it is factual.

I suppose clear and articulate, easy to understand documentation is more of an art and and a unicorn these days than it is a norm.

 

[Mikeltee]

Save money or laziness... I agree.

It is not unreasonable for a community to build on knowledge or documentation, especially in edge cases or complex scenarios, but that does not excuse the lack of simple facts being assembled in one place.

LED codes
LED status explanations (not part of them, but ALL of them)
Software functionality, not just part of it.
Interface legends, explanations
Etc.

People can form their own opinions. I think the documentation is extremely poor in this case.

I do agree that poor documentation is a widespread problem and not just owned by Ecotech. GHL (for example) has pages and pages of documentation, but (again my opinion) a lot of it is very poorly presented, even if it is factual.

I suppose clear and articulate, easy to understand documentation is more of an art and and a unicorn these days than it is a norm.

Let's face it head on... most reefers are dudes and the first thing a dude does is throw away the manual. There is no sense in updating documentation for each revision when the end result is the trash can.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let's face it head on... most reefers are dudes and the first thing a dude does is throw away the manual. There is no sense in updating documentation for each revision when the end result is the trash can.

Let me fix that...

"Most reefer dudes throw away the manual... and then realize that they are not as smart as they thought they were and needed it after all"

In any case, I think these are providing decent flow. They are quiet in most modes, but the pulses in Nutrient Export mode are actually rather noisy. I have ended up mostly with reef crest during lights on and lagoon during the late evening with simple from midnight to 7am (at least for now). I did not want to disrupt the fishes normal established sleeping territories with new flow at night.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Let's face it head on... most reefers are dudes and the first thing a dude does is throw away the manual. There is no sense in updating documentation for each revision when the end result is the trash can.

I was going to say something about that, but I don’t want to promote stereotypical images. There is enough of that already.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I was going to say something about that, but I don’t want to promote stereotypical images. There is enough of that already.

He is right - most people don't RTFM. That being fact or not should not preclude a manufacturer from producing it in the first place.

It also may be true that in today's world most people just don't care.

We know that they (whoever "they" actually are) that make the decisions for this product don't care about my post or the (lack of) documentation and have used whatever calculus they use to determine the impact on their bottom line and act accordingly.

I just figured I would give them my thoughts on the matter, be it a fools errand or not.

 

[Mikeltee]

I wouldn't exactly call it a fools errand. I'm an automation engineer in pharma and 50% of what I do is write documentation like this. I bill out at $170/hr. That is only one language as well.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

He is right - most people don't RTFM. That being fact or not should not preclude a manufacturer from producing it in the first place.

It also may be true that in today's world most people just don't care.

We know that they (whoever "they" actually are) that make the decisions for this product don't care about my post or the (lack of) documentation and have used whatever calculus they use to determine the impact on their bottom line and act accordingly.

I just figured I would give them my thoughts on the matter, be it a fools errand or not.

You should have seen my rant when I first got my Apex.... lol

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

You should have seen my rant when I first got my Apex.... lol

You and many others had a few of those , but Neptune did put out a comprehensive manual (which next to NO one reads the 200+ page PDF or print it), unlike ecotech. As long as I can remember ecotech didn't even have a comprehensive manual back in 2015 when I bought my original mp40, or the vectra return pump I bought in 2018ish (with endless problems). Just a 'getting started' guide.