Nitrate/Phosphate balance issue

[hllb]

I have two tanks where I have nitrates that are higher than I like, and basically no phosphates. Not sure why, but wanted to get opinions before I start dosing phosphates.

Tank 1: 65g reef, an upgrade from a 32g and was set up in December 2021; yesterday's test was 18.7 nitrates, 0 phosphates. I'd prefer the nitrates were around 10, but there isn't any algae in the tank, so that is less of a concern. The 0 phosphates concerns me. This tank, in February, had an outbreak of disease (through TankDNA testing, discovered a rare Myxozoan parasite called Ceratomyxa). I lost 3 out of 10 fish and spent 6 weeks dosing with peroxide and running UV. Knock on wood, it seems to be resolved now and I stopped the dosing and UV on 4/30. I am currently losing two corals - a lobo and a plate coral. A monti had some mild color fading but seems to be coming back. I actually suspect the dosing may have more to do with this than the PO4, but not sure.

Tank 2: 10g tank with a handful of softies, set up in August 2021; today's test showed nitrates of 14.3, 0 phosphates. This tank has had some algae issues, mostly cyano and some hair algae on the back wall, but its doing better now and a lot of the algae is clearing up. No disease issues in this tank

I feed frozen to both tanks, currently once a day (during the illness treatment, I was feeding the big tank twice a day with Selcon). I add Brightwell Coralamino daily. I have BRS Reef Chili but I don't feed that consistently. I do 10-15% WCs weekly on both tanks.

Opinions on how to safely raise phosphates? I do have some to dose, but I've been hesitant during the disease treatment to do so. I wasn't sure if the dosing was affecting my levels. One interesting thing I noticed, the day after stopping dosing, my skimmer went nuts with bubbles and I had to turn it down.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What exactly do you have to dose?

 

[hllb]

What exactly do you have to dose?

Sorry, I have Brightwell Phosphat-E

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sorry, I have Brightwell Phosphat-E

Fail.

That’s a phosphate remover, not a way to raise it.

 

[hhaase]

Randy is on the case!

Just to confirm, are you currently dosing the Phosphat-E, as well as peroxide?

Running the skimmer 24hrs?

Still have Chaeto in the sump?

 

[hllb]

Fail.

That’s a phosphate remover, not a way to raise it.

No, that's me being dumb, not looking at what I actually have, and googling LOL. I have Neophos

 

[hllb]

Randy is on the case!

Just to confirm, are you currently dosing the Phosphat-E, as well as peroxide?

Running the skimmer 24hrs?

Still have Chaeto in the sump?

I have Neophos (that's what I get for not looking LOL). I am not dosing it, and not dosing peroxide any longer either. I do run the skimmer 24 hours and do have chaeto in the sump. I have found skimming/chaeto to be more effective at nitrate removal than phosphate removal, but it's been a while since I had my phosphate in my systems.

 

[hllb]

I also have a low pH problem, so am running a CO2 scrubber on my skimmer and am hesitant to turn that off.

 

[hhaase]

I wouldn't think the Co2 scrubber would affect your phosphate issue, so no need to change that.

I've never had to dose for phosphates before so I can't comment on the best additive or ratios, but I would think that raising phosphates would be good for the tank. Might even see nitrates drop at that point if your livestock is currently phosphate starved to the point it's inhibiting growth and other nutrient uptake.

 

[brahm]

Do some water changes to lower your nitrates , and mix some pellets into your feeding routine if you really want to raise your phosphates. Are you seeing a specific problem with your inhabitants that you are trying to correct for? If not I’d let it ride.

 

[hllb]

Do some water changes to lower your nitrates , and mix some pellets into your feeding routine if you really want to raise your phosphates. Are you seeing a specific problem with your inhabitants that you are trying to correct for? If not I’d let it ride.

WC are a very inefficient way to lower nitrates (and I am doing them). I have a couple of corals that are dying (perhaps not related) and some of my zoas look a bit off.

 

[hllb]

I'm most curious as to how they became so out of whack in the first place. I have never seen more than a trace amount of phosphates in this tank since setting it up in December. I never had trouble keeping phosphate where I wanted it in my old tank. My nitrates, prior to peroxide dosing and the disease, hovered around 10, and I target 5 to 10. Then, after dosing for a couple of days, nitrates plummeted to nearly 0. After a few more days, they came back up, and then continued to climb for the next 5ish weeks while I dosed peroxide. I wondered if that was causing issues so I didn't really try to correct it while I was still dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Neophos is ok to dose. Cheaper alternatives that carry a purity guarantee that Brightwell lacks include food grade sodium phosphate from Amazon.

 

[hhaase]

I'm most curious as to how they became so out of whack in the first place. I have never seen more than a trace amount of phosphates in this tank since setting it up in December. I never had trouble keeping phosphate where I wanted it in my old tank. My nitrates, prior to peroxide dosing and the disease, hovered around 10, and I target 5 to 10. Then, after dosing for a couple of days, nitrates plummeted to nearly 0. After a few more days, they came back up, and then continued to climb for the next 5ish weeks while I dosed peroxide. I wondered if that was causing issues so I didn't really try to correct it while I was still dosing.

Peroxide dosing is sometimes tried as an algae control as well, and will have an effect on things that photosynthesize. Randy is far far more qualified than I am to discuss the chemical changes in the water. Either way, likely the peroxide dosing affected the water chemistry and nutrient uptake rates in the tank.

If you were already borderline insufficient on phosphates, and things are more rapidly photosynthesizing due to the peroxide , it won't take much to consume what little phosphate was in there. Particularly if you have a well stocked tank.

That's kinda the downside of having to deal with issues like the parasites you were having, sometimes the cure for one issue can have an unintended negative result. Particularly if the required steps can potentially throw the balance of the system out of whack.

As a side though, after your phosphates recover and things stabilize, you might consider looking at an additional food that can contribute to more phosphates as opposed to chemical dosing. It's easy to get trapped into dosing a lot of different things which can drastically increase complexity of reefkeeping.

 

[brahm]

WC are a very inefficient way to lower nitrates (and I am doing them). I have a couple of corals that are dying (perhaps not related) and some of my zoas look a bit off.

Correct. This is reefkeeping, not software engineering. Inefficiencies are not a bad thing. Our goal should be to slightly influence long term trends shot for middle of the road values, and avoid extremes that could lead to disaster.

unless you can draw a a very specific data driven cause
And effect that can be fixed by a surgical approach 99% of the time a light hand with our tanks is better.

Think of water changes as a catch all (And make sure you are doing them correctly). Know something is off but aren’t totally sure the problem is related to it, do water changes and stay the course. You can always up the frequency and the size.

Our tanks can thrive under a wide spectrum of parameters where they flop is when we change things rapidly.

Can you add a chemical to get you from X to Y? Yes, But it won’t lead to an overall more stable system. I’d focus in on the husbandry that is leading you to not hit your desired result vs trying to solve for the results themselves or you’ll find yourself chasing your tail.