Nitrate/Sulfur Reactor with dosing 2 part

[huttyhawk]

For those running a sulfur reactor or nitrate reactor, my understanding is that this will also raise your calcium levels or decrease your Alk levels, I’m not a 100% which actually. But anyway my question is were you able to over come
this issue by adjusted one of your doses in a 2 part soaring system?

For example, if calcium is increasing in your system while your nitrate reactor reduces nitrate. Do you just reduce your calcium level dosing portion of the 2 part and leave the alkalinity dosing levels unchanged?

 

[lapin]

yes
It is 2 part for just that reason.

 

[GARRIGA]

Sulphur/Nitrate reactor won’t raise calcium but will return alkalinity lost during nitrification. Depending on the media used then it might raise calcium or if calcium based media is used to raise the effluent PH. That’s my understanding.

I’ve never used a sulphur reactor but I have experimenting over the years with the concept of denitrification and currently doing such. When my nitrates go up then alkalinity drops. The inverse happens when I lower them with carbon dosing. I’m experimenting with flow to determine if I can naturally reduce nitrates without additional carbon dosing. I’m also using a calcium based media for part of my nitrification under the assumption that nitrification would acidify that media releasing additional alkalinity and calcium. I often have to reduce my alkalinity via acid buffers to convert alkalinity to CO2 therefore it appears that actually working. Plus my calcium levels are over 550 because I only have fish during this phase. No WC but I’m going to have to a large enough change soon just to bring calcium down then see what happens.

Nitrification removes alkalinity. Denitrification returns alkalinity. Used to think it was only 50% based on my research but Randy has shown me it 100%. Assuming no WC done to mechanically remove nitrates.

I know of no assumption that denitrification adds calcium other than the media used being the conduit.

 

[Sean Clark]

The biological process that occurs in a sulfur denitrator consumes alkalinity. You can mitigate this to a certain degree by sending the effluent through a second media chamber with calcium reactor media in it. The alkalinity consumption will depend on the system and nitrate input. Calcium is also released with this method but only to a limited extent.

There is a good article on this here that is worth the read:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

Here is the part of the article on sulfur denitrators:
8. Sulfur Denitrators

In these systems, bacteria use elemental sulfur and produce N2 from the sulfur and nitrate according the following equation (or something similar):

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3– → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+

The production of acid (H+) in this reactor can tend to reduce the aquarium alkalinity. It has also been suggested to pass the effluent of such a reactor through a bed of aragonite to use the acid (H+) produced to dissolve the calcium carbonate, and thereby provide calcium and alkalinity to the aquarium. While that is a fine idea, it doesn’t add much calcium and alkalinity to most aquaria.

To estimate the magnitude of the effect, we start with a liberal estimate of how much nitrate might be removed. Say 10 ppm of nitrate per week.

10 ppm nitrate = 0.16 mmole/L of nitrate

Since 4 moles of H+ are produced for every 6 moles of nitrate consumed, this will produce

0.107 mmoles/L of H+ per week

How much calcium this could produce?

Assume that it takes one proton to dissolve one calcium carbonate:

CaCO3 + H+ → Ca2+ + HCO3–

Clearly, this is a substantial overestimate because much of the acid will be used up driving the pH down to the point where CaCO3 can even begin to dissolve. Consequently, we have an upside limit of 0.107 mmoles of Ca2+ per week. Since calcium weighs 40 mg/mmol, that’s 4.3 ppm Ca2+ per week.

For comparison, an aquarist adding 2% of the tank volume in saturated limewater daily is adding on the order of 16 ppm of calcium per day. Consequently, this method may not be especially useful for maintaining calcium. Additionally, the acid produced will have a long term lowering effect on the alkalinity. In fact, it is double dipping on the alkalinity depletion since alkalinity is consumed when the nitrate is produced, and again when it is removed in the denitrator. So if you use a sulfur denitrator, be sure to monitor the alkalinity in the aquarium.

 

[huttyhawk]

The biological process that occurs in a sulfur denitrator consumes alkalinity. You can mitigate this to a certain degree by sending the effluent through a second media chamber with calcium reactor media in it. The alkalinity consumption will depend on the system and nitrate input. Calcium is also released with this method but only to a limited extent.

There is a good article on this here that is worth the read:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

Here is the part of the article on sulfur denitrators:
8. Sulfur Denitrators

In these systems, bacteria use elemental sulfur and produce N2 from the sulfur and nitrate according the following equation (or something similar):

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3– → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+

The production of acid (H+) in this reactor can tend to reduce the aquarium alkalinity. It has also been suggested to pass the effluent of such a reactor through a bed of aragonite to use the acid (H+) produced to dissolve the calcium carbonate, and thereby provide calcium and alkalinity to the aquarium. While that is a fine idea, it doesn’t add much calcium and alkalinity to most aquaria.

To estimate the magnitude of the effect, we start with a liberal estimate of how much nitrate might be removed. Say 10 ppm of nitrate per week.

10 ppm nitrate = 0.16 mmole/L of nitrate

Since 4 moles of H+ are produced for every 6 moles of nitrate consumed, this will produce

0.107 mmoles/L of H+ per week

How much calcium this could produce?

Assume that it takes one proton to dissolve one calcium carbonate:

CaCO3 + H+ → Ca2+ + HCO3–

Clearly, this is a substantial overestimate because much of the acid will be used up driving the pH down to the point where CaCO3 can even begin to dissolve. Consequently, we have an upside limit of 0.107 mmoles of Ca2+ per week. Since calcium weighs 40 mg/mmol, that’s 4.3 ppm Ca2+ per week.

For comparison, an aquarist adding 2% of the tank volume in saturated limewater daily is adding on the order of 16 ppm of calcium per day. Consequently, this method may not be especially useful for maintaining calcium. Additionally, the acid produced will have a long term lowering effect on the alkalinity. In fact, it is double dipping on the alkalinity depletion since alkalinity is consumed when the nitrate is produced, and again when it is removed in the denitrator. So if you use a sulfur denitrator, be sure to monitor the alkalinity in the aquarium.

Thank you for your this.

Ok, so my Alkalinity is going to drop when running a sulfur reactor. The addition of aragonite at 1-4 ratio with your sulfur media mitigates this to some extent but it will still cause a decrease in alkalinity in your system.

I will then increase my 2 part dosing in equal amounts until I achieve my desired alkalinity levels. This should be easy then because I have a GHL KH director that already maintains my desired level of alkalinity levels


I am going to give this sulfur reactor a try. I’m trying to get my Nitrates down from over 75 down to 10 in my SPS dominated tank.

 

[Sean Clark]

That is exactly how I have been doing it for years except I use a KH Guardian to manage the alkalinity.

 

[huttyhawk]

That is exactly how I have been doing it for years except I use a KH Guardian to manage the alkalinity.

Sweet setup. What nitrate level do you target?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you for your this.

Ok, so my Alkalinity is going to drop when running a sulfur reactor. The addition of aragonite at 1-4 ratio with your sulfur media mitigates this to some extent but it will still cause a decrease in alkalinity in your system.

I will then increase my 2 part dosing in equal amounts until I achieve my desired alkalinity levels. This should be easy then because I have a GHL KH director that already maintains my desired level of alkalinity levels


I am going to give this sulfur reactor a try. I’m trying to get my Nitrates down from over 75 down to 10 in my SPS dominated tank.

I think you will have to dose more alk than calcium. The aragonite only causes an effect identical to dosing more of both two parts equally.

 

[Sean Clark]

Sweet setup. What nitrate level do you target?

2ppm in the tank. The output of the reactor is always 0 even at pretty high flow rates. Basically I control the tank level by processing more or less water through the reactor.

 

[huttyhawk]

we

2ppm in the tank. The output of the reactor is always 0 even at pretty high flow rates. Basically I control the tank level by processing more or less water through the reactor.

So lowering flow rate out of the reactor will increase nitrates in the tank. That makes sense, and as long as the that lower flow rate doesn’t cause to smell bad your good to go. I understand the if the flow is too low that it could produce a bad smell.

Do you keep any SPS corals?

 

[huttyhawk]

I think you will have to dose more alk than calcium. The aragonite only causes an effect identical to dosing more of both two parts equally.

Thank you

 

[Sean Clark]

we


So lowering flow rate out of the reactor will increase nitrates in the tank. That makes sense, and as long as the that lower flow rate doesn’t cause to smell bad your good to go. I understand the if the flow is too low that it could produce a bad smell.

Do you keep any SPS corals?

Correct, lower flow rate means that less nitrate laden water is processed per day so the level in the tank will rise over time. I typically run 50ml/min. I have run it much lower at 10ml/min without a hydrogen sulfate smell. I am sure all systems will differ depending on the conditions they are operating under. I have tried a few different methods over the years and have found that adjusting the flow is the simplest way to manage these.
I do keep sps but nothing too crazy with fancy names. I have found that 2ppm works for me. I have kept it higher in the past at 10 and 20 and did not notice any richer colors like some people claim. That could be for a lot of other reasons though.

 

[huttyhawk]

Randy @Randy-holmes-farley

I’ve had my sulfur reactor up and running for 2 weeks and it amazes me to see my nitrates decrease. My tanks nitrates test at 75, and I’ve ranged my nitrates coming out of the reactor as low as 2.5 with a flow rate of 2-3 drops per second out of the reactor and as high as 58 when the reactor outflow is set to max.

One thing I noticed when I had the low flow rate of 2-3 drops per second is the build of gas bubbles insides the reactor. However , when the reactor was set to max outflow the bubbles were gone or barely noticeable.

My understanding is that nitrogen gas is released as a byproduct of these reactors and that might be what I was seeing being built up inside the reactor. My question Is that release of that nitrogen gas harmful for people in the same room as the reactor?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy @Randy-holmes-farley

I’ve had my sulfur reactor up and running for 2 weeks and it amazes me to see my nitrates decrease. My tanks nitrates test at 75, and I’ve ranged my nitrates coming out of the reactor as low as 2.5 with a flow rate of 2-3 drops per second out of the reactor and as high as 58 when the reactor outflow is set to max.

One thing I noticed when I had the low flow rate of 2-3 drops per second is the build of gas bubbles insides the reactor. However , when the reactor was set to max outflow the bubbles were gone or barely noticeable.

My understanding is that nitrogen gas is released as a byproduct of these reactors and that might be what I was seeing being built up inside the reactor. My question Is that release of that nitrogen gas harmful for people in the same room as the reactor?

Air is naturally 78% nitrogen as N2, so a tiny bit more is no concern.

 

[huttyhawk]

Air is naturally 78% nitrogen as N2, so a tiny bit more is no concern.

Ha, thank you!

 

[Sean Clark]

I tied my degassing port into my effluent so the nitrogen gas is allowed to escape as it accumulates all on its own. Setting it up this way eliminated the degasing maintenance for me.

 

[huttyhawk]

I tied my degassing port into my effluent so the nitrogen gas is allowed to escape as it accumulates all on its own. Setting it up this way eliminated the degasing maintenance for me.

Do you have a picture? What brand reactor are you running?

 

[Sean Clark]

Do you have a picture? What brand reactor are you running?

I have a Korallin reactor. The three valves from left to right are de-gas, effluent, and input. By closing the normal effluent and connecting the de-gas into the effluent line the feed pump pushes the water into the reactor and the water is forced out of the highest point where the gas normally collects. Technically I do not even need the y splitter but I find it bennifital during startup to run it in its normal configuration until the bacteria establishes itself. Then I switch it over.