Nitrate to Phosphate Ratio 10:1

[Chrisz]

Trying to get my tank parameters back to normal, Nitrate and phosphate shot up and PH, DKH, Calcium and Mag was low. Have done several water changes, still need to reduce nitrate. The phosphate to nitrate ratio is off how do I reduce nitrate with out impacting the phosphate?

Wanted to start carbon dosing with the Red Sea product not sure what ratio it will reduce the nitrate and phosphate, certainly do not want to reduce to get dino's back.

Recommendations please

 

[rtparty]

No such thing as a nitrate to phosphate ratio. Keep your phosphate above .05ppm and nitrates above 5 or so and you’re set

 

[Jposch]

No such thing as a nitrate to phosphate ratio. Keep your phosphate above .05ppm and nitrates above 5 or so and you’re set

100% this. Water changes are highly effective for nitrate. Much less for phosphate due to rock and sand absorbing it to release over time. If nitrate won't go down with water changes, vacuum your sand more aggressively, but not all at once.
A 50% w/c will knock that no3 down by about half. Are salt salesmen convincing people to do tons of tiny water changes just to burn more salt?
In any case, your "ratio" doesn't need any fixing before you look at total nutrient reduction. Phosphate is sufficiently high if you want to do carbin dosing (not my jazz.)
Carbon dosing will inherently lower your pH that's already getting too low.
Vacuuming the sand and blowing out rocks will free up the rotting organic matter. After sucking it out, ph range should begin to rise over a few days.
Ph range (morning and evening readings) are more useful than a single random test at whatever time of day.

 

[Chrisz]

100% this. Water changes are highly effective for nitrate. Much less for phosphate due to rock and sand absorbing it to release over time. If nitrate won't go down with water changes, vacuum your sand more aggressively, but not all at once.
A 50% w/c will knock that no3 down by about half. Are salt salesmen convincing people to do tons of tiny water changes just to burn more salt?
In any case, your "ratio" doesn't need any fixing before you look at total nutrient reduction. Phosphate is sufficiently high if you want to do carbin dosing (not my jazz.)
Carbon dosing will inherently lower your pH that's already getting too low.
Vacuuming the sand and blowing out rocks will free up the rotting organic matter. After sucking it out, ph range should begin to rise over a few days.
Ph range (morning and evening readings) are more useful than a single random test at whatever time of day.

I've done 4 20 gallon water changes now and have gotten my nitrate and phosphate knocked down quite a bit some of my corals didn't care for that so I'm going to let it ride here for a while. I've always have vacuumed the sand bed but stopped water changes all together when fighting dinos. 16 year old tank I think has just built up a lot of detritus.

 

[exnisstech]

I'd keep levels where your corals are happy. I started down the ratio path but quickly decided it was not a path I wanted to follow.

 

[Jposch]

I've done 4 20 gallon water changes now and have gotten my nitrate and phosphate knocked down quite a bit some of my corals didn't care for that so I'm going to let it ride here for a while. I've always have vacuumed the sand bed but stopped water changes all together when fighting dinos. 16 year old tank I think has just built up a lot of detritus.

Vacuum it with a sock in the sump. Like a 25 or 50 micron sock. Are you sure it wasn't chysophytes? Dinos in an old tank are nearly unheard of. Chrysophytes thrive with high silicate. Can pass through rodi without showing tds.

 

[Jposch]

I'd keep levels where your corals are happy. I started down the ratio path but quickly decided it was not a path I wanted to follow.

I agree. Chase results, not numbers. Use the numbers as a rough guide. YOUR numbers. No need to compare to others besides the universally accepted ranges. For me, 0 nitrate and any po4 above 0.02ppm is great. A bit more nitrogen may increase color, but trace elements do a great job when I stay on it.

 

[Chrisz]

Vacuum it with a sock in the sump. Like a 25 or 50 micron sock. Are you sure it wasn't chysophytes? Dinos in an old tank are nearly unheard of. Chrysophytes thrive with high silicate. Can pass through rodi without showing tds.

Definably dino small cell confirmed with a micro scope. Silicate test kit reads 0 at this time, stopped dossing a month ago or so

 

[Jposch]

Definably dino small cell confirmed with a micro scope. Silicate test kit reads 0 at this time, stopped dossing a month ago or so

which kit? salifert is apparently junk. i had icp done from 2 places on tank water and rodi, both showed elevated level, and salifert, brand new kit...0ppm. diatom disaster until i added fresh anion resin and the tank used up the silicate left.

 

[mook1178]

No such thing as a nitrate to phosphate ratio. Keep your phosphate above .05ppm and nitrates above 5 or so and you’re set

Redfield ratio in the Ocean is real. np 16:1 and get down to 10:1 in some areas

 

[Spare time]

Redfield ratio in the Ocean is real. np 16:1 and get down to 10:1 in some areas

I think they meant its a useless number in reef keeping and has nothing to do with corals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Certainly no use, IMO, to set as a target.

Setting both N and P at absolute concentrations that you desire can never give you something you don’t want, while a ratio can since both can be too high or too low and still be the “right” ratio.

 

[KrisReef]

Phytoplankton
106:16:1

What is the C number in the OP's tank?

 

[rtparty]

Redfield ratio in the Ocean is real. np 16:1 and get down to 10:1 in some areas

No, it isn’t. The 16:1 you referenced is the phytoplankton in a very specific part of the ocean. Has nothing to do with the WATER surrounding them.

Redfield is pointless in this hobby. Anyone chasing it might as well buy my beachfront property I have in Arizona. It’s a great deal!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Since no one is quoting units, everyone should remember that ratios can be given in molar units (numbers of atoms, Redfield himself would use that) weight of N and P, or even weight of nitrate to phosphate. The same water will have different values in these different ways of talking about it.

 

[mook1178]

I think they meant its a useless number in reef keeping and has nothing to do with corals.

Fair enough. I am just getting back into the hobby and have to switch my thinking about oceanography when I come to this board.

I think I just read that first sentence was thrown by that statement.