No love for MH?

[jda]

Icecap run pretty close to 250w on the money. m80 are about 330-335w.

 

[Bpb]

Sorry. I think that those reflectors would be good. 20k Hammys on electronic would probably also be a good choice... not sure that you would ever need the extra power of 20k Radium on m80.

They come with some 3 month old 14k hammys so I’ll see what kind of par those get. Worried I will experience some color degradation from my t5’s. I’ve just been so happy with the color on most things I just feel like my par isn’t high enough

 

[biecacka]

@qstorm my reflectors are about 9 inches off the waterline of my tank.


Corey

 

[leepink23]

Well it’s up and running! First ever halide.

 

[A. grandis]

Growth of what? Coloration of what? I assume you mean coral - does that mean all types of coral? Where has this been shown?



They are?



Thanks it was an interesting video. Of course the placement of the lights will make a difference in the results. Im not in a position to analyze whether they positioned the MH lights so as to make them perform less well.



There is no such thing as 'most home systems'. Everyone is different. Everyone has different types of coral, etc. So, IMHO you can't make that statement.



But you are trying to say they are better - your first quote above says MH are better when it comes to coloration and growth. The constant light from a MH bulb is nothing like what happens on a natural reef - where the earths rotation causes the rays to brighter, darker, more intense, less intense etc. There are clouds on a natural reef - sometimes for days at a time, etc. Saying that one part of MH lighting MAY be more like natural sunlight may very well be a non-issue. If what you're saying (now) is that MH and LED are basically equivalent based on the application - I agree. many people have been saying that for pages.



See answer above. But just curious - what are the benefits of UV in the home aquarium? Can LED's produce UV? (Yes they can). What are the benefits of IR in the home aquarium? From my reading - many types of IR don't penetrate water very far at all. Just because a MH fixture produces IR - doesn't seem to follow that it therefor becomes 'better'....



Not sure what this refers to.

If you read carefully through this thread you will find the answer to all your questions.
Hard to believe you understood that video.
Hard to understand why you are asking same questions over and over using different words...

 

[MnFish1]

If you read carefully through this thread you will find the answer to all your questions.
Hard to believe you understood that video.
Hard to understand why you are asking same questions over and over using different words...

Thanks man - I appreciate your answer. I read it - carefully - the answers to those questions are not there. If you want to waste time to quote them - go ahead- I'd welcome it

 

[SDchris]

The masses of coral collected for the hobby are done on one-breath or wading in waist-deep water.

 

[fredk]

If you are ever in Boulder, stop by and I will play you the difference. The dynamics, channel separation and detail will amaze you, but this is with ultra high end equipment in a room and not on headphones, computer or in a car. You can see the difference in my tanks too. I do probably think that people who might not be able to hear a difference might not be able to see the difference, but those who can do one can probably do the other. Some people just aren't capable of paying that close of attention.

I have also seen studies that people cannot tell a difference in sound quality between a Sonos System and a McIntosh with B&W, Focal, DynAudio, etc. system. These are a waste of my time too. ...like these idiots on the commercials that believe that Chevy is longer lasting than a Toyota or Honda once they pull the sheet off of the car. You can always get enough idiots to conclude anything that you want. The proof is in what you have experienced.

Can you tell a difference in Coke and Pepsi? I can... and even RC Cola. Can you tell a difference in beer brands? Lots of people can. Lots of people still cannot tell and are the ones that the companies end up using in their studies and testing. The people who laughed when they heard the claim that Chevy is the longest lasting brand did not make it on TV.

You do know who Dr. Toole is don't you?

Therein lies the problem. People think their eyes/ears are special and everyone else who does not agree with them are idiots. It was the same with the Ford/Chevy/Chrysler argument days.

I've heard some really nice gear and have actually participated in couple of double blind demos. When neither you nor the tester knows what you are listening to and when, you can't tell. When not blind tested, we all pre-bias ourselves. This is one of the things Toole definitively proved during his time at the NRC. Toole wrote the bible on acoustics and phychoacoustics that dramatically changed the way companies tested and validated speakers. But hey, what does he know. He's just some old guy with a bunch of charts...

 

[fredk]

...

Before this gets brought up again, the two-three meters that both UV and IR can penetrate ocean water is where nearly all of the corals that we have in our tanks come from. The masses of coral collected for the hobby are done on one-breath or wading in waist-deep water. There are studies that suggest that they both can penetrate to 10 meters, but we can table this and use the charts that Data posted a week, or so, ago.

The pedant in me can't leave this one alone. Maybe for maricultured corals, but most of the branching and tabling corals we grow in our tanks would be smashed to little bits by every passing storm in three meters and less of water. All I saw on the GBR in that depth of water was huge bolder corals, probably porities. On most of my dives, the sweet spot seemed to be around 15 meters.

FWIW, those dudes can go a long way down on one breath. A lot further than the out of shape tourists (me in OZ): down to the depths we need scuba gear to reach.

 

[jda]

This is what we saw in the Coral Sea and in Australia. Miles and miles and miles of this - they overcome being out of the water all day and thrive. The biologist at the facility said that they perform full photosynthesis when out of the water. Anybody want to make the argument that these are not getting UV and IR? The collectors that we went out with had masks and were mostly in water where they could touch. I imagine that they could hold their breath for quite some while, for sure, but the captain and also the biologist at the facility said that if they went very deep, it was for fish since they could get $10-15 US dollars for some fish and only $2-5 for most corals. The few clams and nems that they were allowed to collect were barely underwater in low tide. All of the acropora that we had shipped home were in water about waist deep... including some "deepwaters."


[/url]

The corals that they were mariculturing were deeper when in the ocean and in about 1 foot of water once they brought them to troughs on shore. They had shore-based breathers for the mari stuff since they had to groom and work them all the time... they were probably 5-7 meters deep, or so.

I heard Floyd at AES a while back... maybe five years ago? You do realize that he gets paid by a specific audio company? While no doubt brilliant, taking a recommendation or conclusion at face value is a lot like trusting EcoTech to let you know which lights are best. His facts have always been good for years. I am sorry if you cannot tell, or if you have not bothered to try. The offer is still good... I can even let you not know which is which and you will be able to tell a difference. I do have Grande Utopias, McIntosh MT10, McIntosh 350 CD player, so I hope that you know that this matters. I can even tell a difference between the Mc 350 and a $500 Denon player that I have that leaves off notes under about 20hz and above about 17.5k - the detail is better too. If you don't think that there is a difference in a the CD players, then we are truly on a different level. The Vinyl is even a step better. Say what you want about my opinions, but they are formed at my own home, with my own gear with hours and hours if listening time... I did not just stop by to hear somebody else's stuff for a while or read a bunch of stuff online. The worst thing about vinyl once you can tell is that cartridges make a difference too, so yet another level of choices to make.

 

[A. grandis]

The funny thing is that back in the day we already knew most of what has been posted here through books and articles in aquarium magazines.
We didn't have internet!
People think we are just trying to "make" halide looks better or something. The facts won't change, period.
If they knew we are helping the newbies to understand the facts, with actual results, they would thank us for all the precious time we spend here.

 

[alton]

I think the majority of those who posted "no I would not" never ran metal halide, if you did I don't believe you could state you hated it. It was simple compared to most leds today. With leds people need to learn to set it and forget it instead of tweaking it every couple weeks. The following is my tank with MH and then when I down sized to a 180. But now my BML's are getting old and one of the drivers is failing, which if it was a ballast it would be easy to replace, but a driver that matches not so easy. One of the biggest down falls of LEDs, the industry needs to get more standards in place.

 

[oreo54]

There was no "hated it" part to the survey..

But now my BML's are getting old and one of the drivers is failing, which if it was a ballast it would be easy to replace,

It is still relatively easy to replace..
something like this. The number on the driver has to sort of match though.
JUST an example..
https://www.amazon.com/Inventronics...6770&sr=8-20&keywords=inventronics+led+driver

Though you might need to switch from Inventronics to Meanwell driver

Of course "easy "is a relative term..

Post the driver "number"..
Close???
https://www.inventronics-co.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/DS-EUC-052SxxxDVSV-Rev.L.pdf

 

[Jay Norris]

I think the majority of those who posted "no I would not" never ran metal halide, if you did I don't believe you could state you hated it. It was simple compared to most leds today. With leds people need to learn to set it and forget it instead of tweaking it every couple weeks. The following is my tank with MH and then when I down sized to a 180. But now my BML's are getting old and one of the drivers is failing, which if it was a ballast it would be easy to replace, but a driver that matches not so easy. One of the biggest down falls of LEDs, the industry needs to get more standards in place.

Hi, I ran every combination of M/H, T5, VHO bulbs on the planet, I did like the lights, but hated changing bulb every 9 to 12 months, also hated the heat from these lights, especially living in a very warm climate. Also hated the fact there was not a ramp up and down cycles, and as soon as there was an LED fixture available, that could match the growth and color of M/H lights, I switch the light side. I will never go back to M/H lighting, unless they can figure out how to make them dimmable, extend their life time to 5 yrs or more, and finally make them a lot cooler to run , where you no longer need a chiller to run them in a warm climate. Then maybe I would go back to them, but at this time it will never go back to using them, ever. The one thing I really liked about M/H lights was they were just plug and play, and this is a big selling point for M/H, where as LED lights take a lot more tuning to get the correct spectrum and PAR needed to grow corals.

 

[Bpb]

I think I’m one of the only people on the planet that doesn’t care for the ramping feature. If I had dimmable LEDs I’d likely just run them all at 100% all day.

 

[jda]

I don't get ramping either. I get the nighttime blue viewing, but you can do that without ramping.

Ramping is like thunderstorms, couch apps and lunar cycles to me... sounds good to me, but amounts to a hill of beans. Once you show your friends once or twice, I would just want it to work.

I don't think that there is any doubt that some of the best LED lit tanks are at 100% all day - Dr. Joshi, Therman, Adam, etc. Heard that WWC and vivid do this too, but they are vendors and have to run for longer than we do since they keep retail hours - not a good comparison.

 

[Bpb]

I don't get ramping either. I get the nighttime blue viewing, but you can do that without ramping.

Ramping is like thunderstorms, couch apps and lunar cycles to me... sounds good to me, but amounts to a hill of beans. Once you show your friends once or twice, I would just want it to work.

I don't think that there is any doubt that some of the best LED lit tanks are at 100% all day - Dr. Joshi, Therman, Adam, etc. Heard that WWC and vivid do this too, but they are vendors and have to run for longer than we do since they keep retail hours - not a good comparison.

Who’s therman? Question for you. If I make the switch for
8x54 watt ati sunpower, getting 250-400 par for 10 hours a day...to 2x250 watt hamilton 14k with 2x sb reef blue led strips. What kind of photoperiod adjustment should I make to start off. I want to make the change but worried about triggering some necrosis in the process

 

[jda]

He is a user on here. He uses Photon V2s at 100% all the time - or at least he did the last time that he posted.

Start at 4 hours and add 30 minutes a day for a week or two. I run my halides on/off for 10 hours, or sometimes 11 if I just landed some wild stuff.

 

[Bpb]

He is a user on here. He uses Photon V2s at 100% all the time - or at least he did the last time that he posted.

Start at 4 hours and add 30 minutes a day for a week or two. I run my halides on/off for 10 hours, or sometimes 11 if I just landed some wild stuff.

Thanks man. Not going to lie. I have a morbid curiosity about trying the hamilton 6500k bulbs

 

[jda]

They are brutal and hard to take unless you ONLY care about growth. They can really render some good color, but they are horrible at illuminating the corals. If you have to scratch that itch, start with their 10k. They are a nice bulb that can still pop some blues and look nice. The 10k has a lot of PAR too.