No nitrite or nitrate during cycle- week 3

[Brew12]

here's some work at 8 ppm and higher, no stall.

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/1-week-cycle-8-ppm-ammonia-216696.html


This thread should become the official R2R test of the matter.


after this tank has been submerged 40 days guaranteed from the date that rock was prior dry, remove a good portion of the rocks into a test bucket. Spike that bucket to 8 ppm verified accurate ammonia and let it sit overnite at 8

the next day, change out all the water in the bucket 100% for new saltwater

48 hours later, after sitting in zero ammonia/aerated water for two days, input ammonia again but only to 1 ppm

post back ammonia results 24 hours later.

If you really want to test it, there is a better way.

Two tanks, filled for 3 days with dry rock.
For 1 tank, maintain ammonia at 2ppm by daily dosing. For the other, maintain 8ppm ammonia by daily dosing. After 2 weeks, allow the 8ppm tank to drop to 2ppm. When both tanks are at 2ppm see which tank drops to 0ppm faster.
I would be shocked if the tank that was kept at 2ppm doesn't get to 0ppm faster.

 

[Brew12]

I have been maintaining 2.0 ammonia. Dr tims website is where I originally read this information, though I didn't have immediate access to his products so I didn't use them

I'm a big fan of Dr Tim, but even I don't recommend following his advice completely. I keep a bottle of Biospira on hand (which he developed) because I can get it locally, unlike his One and Only. I also recommend letting ammonia drop to 0.5ppm before dosing it back up to 2ppm. I feel that helps reduce Nitrates, especially in larger systems where big water changes are a pain.

 

[Sgolden]

I recently completed the nitrogen cycle. I am a complete rooky. Except that I poured over the forums and the following occurred.
1) bleach and muriatic acid washing of adequate Now " dry rock ".
2) went with a larger 150 gallon used acrylic of which I poured 2 part 40 in the corners prior to fill.
3) ordered 4 bags of live sand
4) purchased 4 pieces of live rock / branching. Added to tank.
5) cycled w/1 table shrimp in nylon bag hanging from tank top. After 2 weeks added 2 more. At 2 1/2 weeks big ammonia spike. Tested 2 times a day just because I was bored. Really bored of watching empty tank.
Removed all 3 shrimp at week three.
6) at 30 days ammonia at zero or very close, nitrites zero, nitrates spiked at 20.
7) note : I dose aqua forest bio s for 2 weeks. Granted, after a few beers I accidentally dumped the bottle over in which maybe half went into the tank. Then at week 3 i dosed seachem stability for 1 week to get multiple bacteria.
8) week 5 added 2 cardinals that had been waiting in quarantine. When I first fed, there was a bacteria bloom which clouds the water milky. Lasted a couple days. Thinking new fish plus probably over feeding.

Overall , adding 2 fish didn't do hardly any bio to the overall 200 gallons with at least 150lbs live rock . I am adding a midnight blenny in a couple of weeks. Will then concentrate on prepping for corals and such. Adding fish maybe in a couple of months.

I have additional projects waiting in the wings. A second tank, refugium that will feed the main tank.

I have 3 250 watt mh, 2 vho actinic. Chiller. Aquarium set in garage. Only a new tank will ever go in the house. Pursuing led lighting options and wondering if hobbyist are getting ripped off with price. Remembering buying led 55 " tv for $2500.00. Now they are half that in cost. Will hobby lights be the same ?

 

[Brew12]

Remembering buying led 55 " tv for $2500.00. Now they are half that in cost. Will hobby lights be the same ?

Probably not. At least not for awhile. The reason the LED TV's dropped in price so much was due to improvements in mass production. There just aren't enough reef tank quality lights sold by any single vendor to be able to drive down development and production costs.

 

[chris k.]

I noticed you are using api test kit. I have one also that i was using and showed no nitrates. I bought a red sea nitrate kit and my nitrates were at 250 ppm and the api test kit showed 0. I dont trust api kits.

 

[spikedangles]

I am only using an API kit for ammonia. Salifert for nitrite and nitrates. I added more mysis yesterday and I will test tomorroe

 

[spikedangles]

There is also a slight fuzz on the rocks- maybe deteriorating mysis shrimp or a bacterial bloom. Today the water still tested ammonia at 2. Sunday I will test all parameters. Hoping to be done for reef a palooza NY at the end of the month

 

[spikedangles]

It's been 11 days, 4 days ago I was still testing around 2 ammonia so I decided I would try the table shrimp again.
This time I cut off about 1/3 of the shrimp, including the tail, and tossed it in. Water doesn't smell this time and I began dosing brightwell microbacter7 daily. Ammonia is at 8, nitrite and nitrate still at 0. Really frustrated right now. I figured on my third bacterial supplement things would have started by now.

 

[Brew12]

It's been 11 days, 4 days ago I was still testing around 2 ammonia so I decided I would try the table shrimp again.
This time I cut off about 1/3 of the shrimp, including the tail, and tossed it in. Water doesn't smell this time and I began dosing brightwell microbacter7 daily. Ammonia is at 8, nitrite and nitrate still at 0. Really frustrated right now. I figured on my third bacterial supplement things would have started by now.

The bacteria you are adding is designed to work at low ammonia levels. It won't do much if your ammonia is at 8ppm. Once you get ammonia under 5ppm, and preferably 2ppm, you will see it drop much faster.

 

[spikedangles]

The bacteria you are adding is designed to work at low ammonia levels. It won't do much if your ammonia is at 8ppm. Once you get ammonia under 5ppm, and preferably 2ppm, you will see it drop much faster.

Should I do a small water change and remove the shrimp to accomplish this? Also, should I worry about the ammonia level dropping at this point? I figured let it drop to 0 when it will then add some more food to see if the levels rise again- as a viable way to determine if all ammonia is being processed properly.

Thanks for the help

 

[Brew12]

Should I do a small water change and remove the shrimp to accomplish this? Also, should I worry about the ammonia level dropping at this point? I figured let it drop to 0 when it will then add some more food to see if the levels rise again- as a viable way to determine if all ammonia is being processed properly.

Thanks for the help

I would definitely remove the shrimp. Eventually your tank will develop enough nitrifying bacteria that are good at digesting high levels of ammonia and get it to drop. Once it drops down to a lower level, the bacteria you have been adding will take over and should keep it low.
A water change would help, but nothing wrong with letting it happen naturally, either.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have helped several people on here who have had cycling issues because of oxidation so no, those aren't the only 3 ways to stymie bacteria.

What sort of oxidation?

 

[Brew12]

What sort of oxidation?

Chlorine/chloramine in their water either from not using RODI or having spent media in their RODI units. And there was one individual who was proactively dosing H2O2 into their new system to try and prevent dino's.

 

[brandon429]

not once has h202 been shown at 3% to cause any impact to nitrification and that includes overdose threads that is automatically worth replicating as a claim.




Def not a recurring risk and on our peroxide threads I wrote it has literally no measurable impact on bacteria/nitrification used in any means. pretty neat if someone found a way to confound that...



the chlorine one I could buy into...

if someone who was setting up reef tanks was actually using straight tap that's an initial lesson learned for both sides.


just the other day I found some sludge digestion work on google schol that showed nitrification not inhibited at 350 ppm, just to show some range options though sludge is additional housing beyond the films we're working with in new or pretty clean reef tanks. it is def not an issue at a few ppm above 5, even sustained and when it is the posts will show it with significance.


these bac are too well housed for brief imperfections to set them back, eons of getting ready for challenges \

 

[brandon429]

also regarding this cycling completion requested date...3 weeks one can be 100% fishless cycled but they use liquid ammonia to have total control. that plus the bottled bac gets em 3 weeks everytime.


the shrimp at posted levels can work as well too, if bottle bac has been added I bet this week the keeper can change out the rotting water and pass an oxidation test for ammonia upon refill...ill have to go back and reread how bottled bac has been applied here the ammonia has been covered. no fuzzy growth should occur in this tank if the levels are suppressive.

 

[Brew12]

not once has h202 been shown at 3% to cause any impact to nitrification and that includes overdose threads that is automatically worth replicating as a claim.

I disagree. For nitrifying bacteria to be protected from H2O2 they must be established. If you add H2O2 into a new tank it will hinder your ability to add nitrifying bacteria into the system.

You can easily test this. Take a bottle of Biospira and put some into a container. Dose some H2O2 into it and wait a few hours. Then compare a fresh sample of the Biospira with the H2O2 treated stuff. You will notice much fewer living bacteria.

 

[spikedangles]

First I used aquavitro seed, 5ml first day and 2.5ml for 12 days after that. Then switched to fritz mardel zyme9. This product said 10x the normal dose could be used if starting a new aquarium, I did that then did the recommended dose untill the bottle emptied. I then started with brightwell microbacter7 a few days ago. This calls for 4 drops per gallon, per day for the first two weeks. I have added 40 drops for 4 days now, so ten days left on this product.

 

[brandon429]

we have three good materials for upcoming articles

amnt of free ammonia that w make bottle bac not work, when dosed into a tank (pre bioslick establishment)

amnt of 3% peroxide that must be added to a tank to reach a dilution level that suppresses aerobic filtration bac from a bottle

and lastly, if you send a known ammonia sample to 25 api ammonia testers, how many of them align.



if the tank digests any more ammonia, its bacteria haven't been killed by the overage.

 

[spikedangles]

Removed the shrimp, ammonia fell from 8 to 2 over two days! Have been dosing Microbacter7 at 4 drops per gallon per day for one week now. Will measure nitrate and nitrite tonight to see if they are registering