NO3:PO4-X Secret Sauce??

[Reefahholic]

I used it about 7 years ago in a large Vat that was housing some of my fish and coral while I was swapping tanks. The Vat didn’t have a skimmer running and my Nitrates and Phosphates were climbing. I happened to have some NO3PO4-X I had laying around but didn’t have a clue what was in it. I tried to follow the dosing instructions, but it killed all my fish and nuked 4 large Magnifica anemones. Later on I figured out that it likely depleted the oxygen in the water column and that’s why the fish and anemones all died. I knew it was some form of Carbon dosing but really didn’t know much about it at the time and still don’t. I know enough now that my tanks have never done well with carbon dosing. That’s because they run low on nutrients. If anything, I needed to raise the nutrients and not lower them.


Anyway, was watching one of Melev’s Reef YouTube’s video because they always pop up in my YouTube feed. Some chick in the chat by the name of Rossy said that NO3PO4-X is made up of the follow ingredients:

NO3PO4-X

375 ML Vinegar
500 ML Vodka
125 ML RODI

I don’t know how true this is or how she got these numbers, but I’ve never heard that before. Can anybody verify this? I thought that was interesting, because I had no idea what that stuff was all this time. I just knew it was some form of carbon dosing that smelled like Vinegar.

 

[redfishbluefish]

That is the recipe determined by grad students under the direction of their professor using nmr. Been using that recipe with success for a number of years.

And fyi, any form of carbon dosing requires a skimmer. No skimmer, you're just making bacterial soup.

 

[Reefahholic]

That is the recipe determined by grad students under the direction of their professor using nmr. Been using that recipe with success for a number of years.

And fyi, any form of carbon dosing requires a skimmer. No skimmer, you're just making bacterial soup.

So are those the real ingredients?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I guess you can say the ingredients are acetic acid, ethanol and water. The real NOPOX also has a pinch of methanol, but the guess is that that is there as an azeotrope with the ethanol....common in laboratory grade alcohol.

 

[Reefahholic]

I guess you can say the ingredients are acetic acid, ethanol and water. The real NOPOX also has a pinch of methanol, but the guess is that that is there as an azeotrope with the ethanol....common in laboratory grade alcohol.

Interesting. I wonder where that Rossy woman got those numbers?

 

[andrewkw]

That is the recipe determined by grad students under the direction of their professor using nmr. Been using that recipe with success for a number of years.

And fyi, any form of carbon dosing requires a skimmer. No skimmer, you're just making bacterial soup.

Interesting. I wonder where that Rossy woman got those numbers?

 

[redfishbluefish]

The original study was done over on RC by shermanator in 2014. I'm not aware of Marc's video with this woman, but imagine she got the info from there. To quote the important part of this 51 page post:

6:1 EtOH:AcOH (ethanol : acetic acid). The AcOH is ~3%.

So you can make your own NOPOX (roughly) by adding 1 part vinegar to 1 part 30% ethanol.

There are a couple impurities around 3 ppm, but otherwise it's quite clean stuff.


With Vodka at 40%, the simple dilution with 125 mls of RO/DI results in the same exact 1 to 1 proportions as found by NMR, above. Hope this helps.

 

[User1]

Interesting. I wonder where that Rossy chick got those numbers?

It doesn't really matter where they got them but there are a few variations out on the interwebz that are similar if you search. DIY works just like the product from RedSea - just have to see which one you want to run. Also as noted above a skimmer in great working order is required. That is something that can't be ignored. So do not pass go, do not collect $200.00, etc. No skimmer, no money.

Also for what it is worth it is a wee bit disrespectful that you are using the term chick. Just throwing that out there.

Edit: changes is to in...

 

[Reefahholic]

The original study was done over on RC by shermanator in 2014. I'm not aware of Marc's video with this woman, but imagine she got the info from there. To quote the important part of this 51 page post:

6:1 EtOH:AcOH (ethanol : acetic acid). The AcOH is ~3%.

So you can make your own NOPOX (roughly) by adding 1 part vinegar to 1 part 30% ethanol.

There are a couple impurities around 3 ppm, but otherwise it's quite clean stuff.


With Vodka at 40%, the simple dilution with 125 mls of RO/DI results in the same exact 1 to 1 proportions as found by NMR, above. Hope this helps.

Nice! Great information there.

 

[Reefahholic]

It doesn't really matter where they got them but there are a few variations out on the interwebz that are similar if you search. DIY works just like the product from RedSea - just have to see which one you want to run. Also as noted above a skimmer in great working order is required. That is something that can't be ignored. So do not pass go, do not collect $200.00, etc. No skimmer, no money.

Also for what it is worth it is a wee bit disrespectful that you are using the term chick. Just throwing that out there.

Edit: changes is to in...

Lady or Women probably sounds better. :) (Edit made)

 

[User1]

Lady or Women probably sounds better. :) (Edit made)

All good and thank you. Not like I'm Mr. Proper Bed Side Manners.

On topic - NoPox is good stuff but it can be dangerous by depleting all nutrients if one is not careful. The good news is that you can calculate the proper dose then cut it in half or even one third to start. Test before first dose to set baseline or a known starting point then test twice weekly thereafter. If you miss a dose do not try and double up - that is bad. Just continue on your regular dosing. I dose during the day since I noticed it impacting my pH a little bit and I also spread it out over 4 hours. It works and for me it reduced both nitrate and phosphate. Searching the web you will find people like it while others do not and won't recommend it. Gets back to the root cause of the problem and how you manage the dosing. For me phosphate is the main driver because I'm using Pukani rock so I use NoPox until I see my nitrates in the 3 - 5 ppm range then scale back the dosing. If it gets much lower I stop all together.

 

[Reefahholic]

Siporax and good husbandry is my Carbon dosing. :p

All good and thank you. Not like I'm Mr. Proper Bed Side Manners.

On topic - NoPox is good stuff but it can be dangerous by depleting all nutrients if one is not careful. The good news is that you can calculate the proper dose then cut it in half or even one third to start. Test before first dose to set baseline or a known starting point then test twice weekly thereafter. If you miss a dose do not try and double up - that is bad. Just continue on your regular dosing. I dose during the day since I noticed it impacting my pH a little bit and I also spread it out over 4 hours. It works and for me it reduced both nitrate and phosphate. Searching the web you will find people like it while others do not and won't recommend it. Gets back to the root cause of the problem and how you manage the dosing. For me phosphate is the main driver because I'm using Pukani rock so I use NoPox until I see my nitrates in the 3 - 5 ppm range then scale back the dosing. If it gets much lower I stop all together.

 

[tgp4274]

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