[Non-Reef] - ATO question

[seanarino]

I don't want to get mangled in a Facebook group for asking a silly question about ATOs but Google will not, under any circumstances, get what I'm trying to ask and just keeps sending me BRS links to auto top offs or clickbait YouTube videos. Great job Google. I'm asking this actually for my freshwater tank, which makes this a lot less complicated.

I wanted to know if it's possible to run an ATO without a sensor, but instead on a timer (for example: like a dosing pump). I'm not planning on an ATO at the moment, I'm just writing this down for later because I'm constantly planning things. I'm paranoid about the sensor because I've heard of a lot of people using them having issues with their ATO getting stuck on because of a dirty sensor and then just flooding their whole living room. Though, that's not exactly why (...okay, well, it's one reason why).

I plan on also doing automatic water changes using a dosing pump for my goldfish aquarium, but I don't want the ATO to sense that the water level has lowered and pump in fresh water, which if you couldn't tell is the one thing I'd prefer it not to do. I wanted (to lower the amount of strain on the pump) have the water changed once every 2 weeks, and then have the ATO run every other week (it wouldn't need to fill it up on the water change week, since that's what the water change is... for, basically) - It won't need to run for long considering I plan on having mostly-solid lids with gaps for air exchange. It'll go:
Water change - top-off - water change - top-off - etc.

I have no clue if this is remotely viable. It would be nice. though I'm not sure exactly what I'd want to use to hold the ATO water vs. the water change water. I don't want it to take up a lot of room. This would be a 75 gallon tank though, theoretically.

 

[blaxsun]

It sounds like what you want is a small pump on a smart timer. Keep in-mind that without any kind of sensor you run the risk of two scenarios: a) not enough RO water being added over time or b) too much RO water being added over time. My advice is get an ATO with dual sensors (electronic+float) to alleviate any concerns (the Tunze Osmolator has this).

 

[Sump Crab]

Being that evaporation can change from week to week or even day to day it might be hard to find the sweet spot for just a pump on a timer.

If you are worried about reliability I can attest to Tunze Osmolator (the one with optical sensor and float switch). I’ve had the same one running around 6 years now lol and not one issue yet.

 

[seanarino]

It sounds like what you want is a small pump on a smart timer. Keep in-mind that without any kind of sensor you run the risk of two scenarios: a) not enough RO water being added over time or b) too much RO water being added over time. My advice is get an ATO with dual sensors (electronic+float) to alleviate any concerns (the Tunze Osmolator has this).

I won't have to worry *too much* about too much or too little added theoretically, since I'm asking this about a freshwater tank - I won't have any salinity issues to deal with. Though, uh, that's a very expensive auto top off...

 

[blaxsun]

I won't have to worry *too much* about too much or too little added theoretically, since I'm asking this about a freshwater tank - I won't have any salinity issues to deal with. Though, uh, that's a very expensive auto top off...

It's not the salinity - more that without a sensor it can lead to too little or too much (overflow) water.

 

[Idech]

I won't have to worry *too much* about too much or too little added theoretically, since I'm asking this about a freshwater tank - I won't have any salinity issues to deal with. Though, uh, that's a very expensive auto top off...

Too much will spill on the floor. So yes, you should worry about that.

 

[seanarino]

Being that evaporation can change from week to week or even day to day it might be hard to find the sweet spot for just a pump on a timer.

If you are worried about reliability I can attest to Tunze Osmolator (the one with optical sensor and float switch). I’ve had the same one running around 6 years now lol and not one issue yet.

Yeah, I planned on having it run for a certain amount of time regardless - It would be a relatively short period of time considering my lids are solid (the versa lids) and I wouldn't have much to replace from evaporation. If it's not enough, I could always add a little bit more by hand after the fact from a jug, but I'd like the bulk of the work to be done automatically. Let's say it evaporates 5 gallons (for the sake of explanation) - The ATO, because of the timer, only fills up 4.5 - I can just add that extra 0.5 with one of my recycled distilled water jugs.

I don't consider that a problem - but if I had to do the whole 5 gallons by hand, by the time I lifted the bucket I'd be 5 inches shorter because I'd start shrimping from the weight LOL

 

[seanarino]

It's not the salinity - more that without a sensor it can lead to too little or too much (overflow) water.

I usually keep my tank water 2-4 inches below the rim just for safety reasons (various) on my freshwater tank, so it'd have to *really* get stuck on, or have enough water to pull from the reservoir, to be able to overflow the tank.

(Edit: just double checked, it's more like 2-4 inches vs. 3-5.)

 

[blaxsun]

I usually keep my tank water 2-4 inches below the rim just for safety reasons (various) on my freshwater tank, so it'd have to *really* get stuck on, or have enough water to pull from the reservoir, to be able to overflow the tank.

(Edit: just double checked, it's more like 2-4 inches vs. 3-5.)

That's entirely up to you how you'd want to implement it. On my tank I have 2 optical sensors, an optical level sensor and 2 floats (in addition to a controller). Because I can't afford it overflowing.

 

[seanarino]

That's entirely up to you how you'd want to implement it. On my tank I have 2 optical sensor, an optical level sensor and 2 floats (in addition to a controller). Because I can't afford it overflowing.

If it permits, I may (key word: "may") use a 2-head dosing pump - have both heads share the load so one isn't running for a really long time attempting to pull a lot of water, and just have it on a short timer. Normally ATO are run with pumps, but I think for this it'd be better to use something like a dosing pump just because of my setup being sort of funky.

 

[Peace River]

@seanarino - no mangling here!

You may have more issues trying to dial in the proposed solution than using redundancy in an automatic water change (AWC) setup using sensors/floats. Also remember that goldfish are very efficient waste producers because of their lack of a stomach so big water changes are often recommended. Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[blaxsun]

If it permits, I may (key word: "may") use a 2-head dosing pump - have both heads share the load so one isn't running for a really long time attempting to pull a lot of water, and just have it on a short timer. Normally ATO are run with pumps, but I think for this it'd be better to use something like a dosing pump just because of my setup being sort of funky.

Yes, you can also use a 2-head dosing pump. Basically what @Peace River said above.

 

[seanarino]

@seanarino - no mangling here!

You may have more issues trying to dial in the proposed solution than using redundancy in an automatic water change (AWC) setup using sensors/floats. Also remember that goldfish are very efficient waste producers because of their lack of a stomach so big water changes are often recommended. Good luck with whatever you choose!

Oh don't worry! I've had goldfish for a long time lol. Right now I'm running a nearly 600 GPH filter on a 75 gallon tank and it still doesn't feel like enough. This was for setting up a new tank - I wanted to have some automation for things that are issues for me normally due to my ~ poor body condition ~ (read: I'm disabled, lol)

I plan on automating things like the replenishing of trace elements (Gold Trace twice a week, 10 mL, on 'ATO week', nothing on water change week) - I would technically only be dosing enough for a 40 gallon tank (5 mL for 20 gallons, so 10 mL for 40) but since I'm also doing water changes every other week, I don't see the need to dose more than that, as well as feeding (smaller amounts, twice a day), fertilizer dosing (I plan on having plants in there if the goldfish would quit eating them for more than five seconds), and possibly other things.

So I was thinking of a way to mostly automate top-offs in a way that didn't mean I'd have to lug around large jugs of water. I have milk jugs and vinegar jugs as well as the normal distilled water jugs with the "cap handle", which are perfectly fine for me to use (they're only 1 gallon vs. several gallons in a bucket) so I could theoretically top off extra if the normal ATO didn't fill it up to where I wanted it.

I'm still brainstorming the AWC system still - not sure exactly how I'll do it. If there's an easy-to-understand, non-video crash course somewhere, I'd like to read it lol. Everything I've seen is all videos!

 

[BaliReefBox]

you could use a digital timer and have it run for 15 seconds a few times a day depending on your needs

 

[exnisstech]

Auto water changes on a FW tank is a bit over the top but you do what you need to. I get that. But it's 's fresh water so evaporation is not an issue. Just pour some water in when it get low even if it's a quart or half gallon whatever you can handle. It's not like salinity is going to raise. I always just added water when I could see the water line (standard braced tanks).

but if I had to do the whole 5 gallons by hand, by the time I lifted the bucket I'd be 5 inches shorter because I'd start shrimping from the weight

Why not get a python and fill from your faucet and you don't have to lift anything and you can use it for draining also. I kept freshwater for over 30 year's and that what worked.

 

[Nick Steele]

Do you get that much evaporation?

I had my 55G go a month and my water level only dropped an inch or two tops. You’d probably be good just doing a water change every two weeks and not worrying about top off in a freshwater tank.

Heck my 15G has been running for a week and I can’t even tell if it has any evaporation yet lol.

 

[seanarino]

Auto water changes on a FW tank is a bit over the top but you do what you need to. I get that. But it's 's fresh water so evaporation is not an issue. Just pour some water in when it get low even if it's a quart or half gallon whatever you can handle. It's not like salinity is going to raise. I always just added water when I could see the water line (standard braced tanks).

Why not get a python and fill from your faucet and you don't have to lift anything and you can use it for draining also. I kept freshwater for over 30 year's and that what worked.

I can't use my tap water, it sucks. It's got TDS so high I'm surprised it doesn't come out of the faucet in bricks and also has high nitrates.

My air conditioning in my room is really bad during the summer and I get a lot of water evaporation because the air conditioning can't handle the size of my room, so I get a lot of evaporation with both my salt and my fresh.

 

[exnisstech]

I can't use my tap water, it sucks. It's got TDS so high I'm surprised it doesn't come out of the faucet in bricks and also has high nitrates.

I must have dumb luck, I never tested water until I started salt water tanks.

 

[seanarino]

I must have dumb luck, I never tested water until I started salt water tanks.

I did because my goldfish tank started having weirdly high nitrates even after major water changes.

It was my water that causes it. We've had issues with bad cycles and fish dying often in the past (our dad likes fish as well). We thought it was us despite doing everything right - it's not! It's our water!

Also, I can't use a python because I don't have an outside spigot to attach it to nearby (I'd have to run it all the way around my house. Which is in function, a trailer) and my sink itself has the world's worst water pressure I've ever seen and it takes like 3 minutes to fill up a watering can just to bring to the chickens outside to drink.