Not a feesh supplements

[dnledman]

Just looking for general feedback on “not a Feesh” 2 part. I am currently using B-ionic but if I could get a better result I am open to it. I haven’t be able to find much via searching so i am posting this to get some feedback.

Thanks!

 

[KStatefan]

Can you explain what not a feesh 2 part is?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've never seen anyone comment on using it. It is a very high pH alk part. Without knowing exactly how they made it and not having any knowledge about the folks putting it together, I'd personally use a DIY to achieve the same pH effect while knowing exactly what it was.

https://notafeesh.com/collections/supplyment
The diy:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-balling-method-recipe.1098905/

 

[Daftendire]

I've been using the NAF 2 part for close to a year now. I was previously using ESV, but I was leaning towards a hydroxide based supplement since I was struggling with low PH and slow SPS growth in my basement tank. So far, I've been having good results. Some of my faster growing acros are starting to take off! The acros below show about 5 months of growth (ignore the bubble algae and vermetids). @hunterallen40 may be able to provide some more insight on the product.

-Martin

 

[dnledman]

Thanks everyone, my PH is stuck at 7.9 which is why I was asking.

I am still on the fence, also debating just bitting the bullet and getting a calcium reactor BUT that may screw my PH.

Nothing is straight forward in this hobby so decisions to be made, but thank you all for commenting!

 

[nlastner]

Thanks everyone, my PH is stuck at 7.9 which is why I was asking.

I am still on the fence, also debating just bitting the bullet and getting a calcium reactor BUT that may screw my PH.

Nothing is straight forward in this hobby so decisions to be made, but thank you all for commenting!

I know a lot of people in the Mid Atlantic use it. I have heard nothing but good things. They will take a look at your ICP/ consumption and make a custom blend for you as well. About to start using it on my tank.

 

[hunterallen40]

Just looking for general feedback on “not a Feesh” 2 part. I am currently using B-ionic but if I could get a better result I am open to it. I haven’t be able to find much via searching so i am posting this to get some feedback.

Thanks!

Hey! Since this is my product, I figured I should chime in.

We have been developing this over a few years, starting with a three part formulation based on @Randy Holmes-Farley's DIY solution, then later evolving into a true Two-Part.

We have been fine-tuning the trace and minor element blend based off of our own observations, as well as both customer and our own ICP-MS tests (we run the two part on all of our systems, and have been tuning it to keep levels as stable as possible over time).

We use the highest purity of ingredients we can fine (many are ACS Reagent grade, including our calcium chloride), and make every set in-house to ensure consistency between batches.

Happy to answer any questions anyone has!

 

[DEdiver]

I've been using the NAF 2 part w/ trace elements for about 6 months. I was previously using AFR, but looking to get my pH a little higher without going for a scrubber. It bumped me up about 0.16 and my SPS are looking great.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've been using the NAF 2 part w/ trace elements for about 6 months. I was previously using AFR, but looking to get my pH a little higher without going for a scrubber. It bumped me up about 0.16 and my SPS are looking great.

Good to hear. What was the starting pH range before the change?

 

[DEdiver]

It was typically cycling between 7.85-8 with fuge lights on from 5 PM to 9 AM. It's in my office that suffers from high CO2.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It was typically cycling between 7.85-8 with fuge lights on from 5 PM to 9 AM. It's in my office that suffers from high CO2.

Ok, thanks. :)

 

[Hooz]

Hey! Since this is my product, I figured I should chime in.

We have been developing this over a few years, starting with a three part formulation based on @Randy Holmes-Farley's DIY solution, then later evolving into a true Two-Part.

We have been fine-tuning the trace and minor element blend based off of our own observations, as well as both customer and our own ICP-MS tests (we run the two part on all of our systems, and have been tuning it to keep levels as stable as possible over time).

We use the highest purity of ingredients we can fine (many are ACS Reagent grade, including our calcium chloride), and make every set in-house to ensure consistency between batches.

Happy to answer any questions anyone has!

So are the traces "ion balanced" like ESV for the "salinity increase" (Is that even a thing using hydroxide?), or are the traces "boosted" to account for uptake?

If it has boosted traces and addresses magnesium and potassium in a true 2-part, sign me up!

Are there any special considerations for dosing containers (acrylic), tubing (PVC/vinyl), etc?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So are the traces "ion balanced" like ESV for the "salinity increase" (Is that even a thing using hydroxide?), or are the traces "boosted" to account for uptake?

On the hydroxide question, sodium bicarbonate, carbonate and hydroxide are identical with respect to ion balance issues.

 

[hunterallen40]

So are the traces "ion balanced" like ESV for the "salinity increase" (Is that even a thing using hydroxide?), or are the traces "boosted" to account for uptake?

We have boosted several trace / minor elements to account for consumption (without pushing so far as to cause a dangerous buildup over time), and balance ions like sulfur and chloride to maintain natural ratios (yes, this formulation also considers contribution to these ions from trace / minor ions, as well as major ions).

If it has boosted traces and addresses magnesium and potassium in a true 2-part, sign me up!

Yes, yes and yes! This is 100% the idea :).

Are there any special considerations for dosing containers (acrylic), tubing (PVC/vinyl), etc?

Yes -- this is quite important to note!! I highly recommend you look up your container's compatibility with sodium hydroxide.

In general, glass / HDPE are preferred. Acrylic should also be fine, but it's always a good idea to check with the manufacturer.

For dosing lines, silicone is compatible. For other options, though, double check the material with the manufacturer.

The calcium / magnesium part, though, should not have any abnormal limitations with respect to dosing containers / dosing lines.

 

[Hooz]

We have boosted several trace / minor elements to account for consumption (without pushing so far as to cause a dangerous buildup over time), and balance ions like sulfur and chloride to maintain natural ratios (yes, this formulation also considers contribution to these ions from trace / minor ions, as well as major ions).



Yes, yes and yes! This is 100% the idea :).



Yes -- this is quite important to note!! I highly recommend you look up your container's compatibility with sodium hydroxide.

In general, glass / HDPE are preferred. Acrylic should also be fine, but it's always a good idea to check with the manufacturer.

For dosing lines, silicone is compatible. For other options, though, double check the material with the manufacturer.

The calcium / magnesium part, though, should not have any abnormal limitations with respect to dosing containers / dosing lines.

My original plan was to use ESV with TM A-/K+ traces added in. But then I saw the Nyos stuff, which is basically the same, but it also addresses magnesium and potassium and uses a slightly different approach to trace elements.

I know noboby knows exactly how much of each element TM or Nyos adds to their trace mixes, but how would you guess that your "standard" version compare to doing one of the methods I mentioned?

This particular tank really struggles with pH, so the hydroxide approach interests me. I just wasn't sure I was realy to commit to the full DiY approach.

 

[hunterallen40]

I know noboby knows exactly how much of each element TM or Nyos adds to their trace mixes, but how would you guess that your "standard" version compare to doing one of the methods I mentioned?

I am not entirely sure, honestly. Especially comparing to Nyos.

If you are struggling with pH, I think you should give our stuff a try.

Our objective is not to give more or less of our trace elements that other brands, but rather to give the right amounts for the general population based on calcification. We have been fine-tuning our trace blend for a couple years now, based on our own observations, ICP-MS test, and those we get from our even-growing customer base.

It's very hard to compare two parts, so I'll just tell you what matters to me. We aim to get pH in the 8.3+ range, provide calcium and magnesium in appropriate ratios, ionically balance so that we don't skew ions like chloride / sulfate over time, and use the highest purity ingredients we can get our hands on to keep our product as clean as possible.

This is why we use ACS reagent grade calcium chloride and magnesium chloride, instead of USP (note: in fairness, ACS and USP grade calcium chloride are often synonymous, but we make sure to get ACS regardless).

Interestingly, this is where the bulk of our price comes from. The trace elements blend does not substantially impact the price in any quantity, so we are willing to adjust in either direction upon request (this is why the no trace version is the same price).

Feel free to follow up on any of these points as you so desire. I believe what we make is the best, and wouldn't sell it otherwise. We are happy to answer anything you want to know!

 

[Hooz]

I am not entirely sure, honestly. Especially comparing to Nyos.

If you are struggling with pH, I think you should give our stuff a try.

Our objective is not to give more or less of our trace elements that other brands, but rather to give the right amounts for the general population based on calcification. We have been fine-tuning our trace blend for a couple years now, based on our own observations, ICP-MS test, and those we get from our even-growing customer base.

It's very hard to compare two parts, so I'll just tell you what matters to me. We aim to get pH in the 8.3+ range, provide calcium and magnesium in appropriate ratios, ionically balance so that we don't skew ions like chloride / sulfate over time, and use the highest purity ingredients we can get our hands on to keep our product as clean as possible.

This is why we use ACS reagent grade calcium chloride and magnesium chloride, instead of USP (note: in fairness, ACS and USP grade calcium chloride are often synonymous, but we make sure to get ACS regardless).

Interestingly, this is where the bulk of our price comes from. The trace elements blend does not substantially impact the price in any quantity, so we are willing to adjust in either direction upon request (this is why the no trace version is the same price).

Feel free to follow up on any of these points as you so desire. I believe what we make is the best, and wouldn't sell it otherwise. We are happy to answer anything you want to know!

So the "no trace version" is still ion balanced for the salinity increase? Just without the other "boosted" trace elements?

That might be the one for me to start with, then.

 

[hunterallen40]

So the "no trace version" is still ion balanced for the salinity increase? Just without the other "boosted" trace elements?

That might be the one for me to start with, then.

This version only includes strontium, fluoride, magnesium, calcium, boron, bromine, potassium, and alkalinity. These values are the same as in the all-in-two, so they still account for consumption.

If you ask me, it's worth it to try the all-in-two unless you plan on doing the traces by hand (since some like to do specific amounts of iron, manganese, copper, cobalt, chrome, barium, iodine, etc). Since the trace added is tied to calcium, it is very hard to overdose it (unless, of course, you are overdosing calcium).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My original plan was to use ESV with TM A-/K+ traces added in. But then I saw the Nyos stuff, which is basically the same, but it also addresses magnesium and potassium and uses a slightly different approach to trace elements.

Do you know you need to dose potassium? It does not necessarily deplete. it did not in my previous tank. It reflects potassium in foods relative to potassium in newly built tissues.

What do you mean by uses a slightly different approach to trace elements?

 

[Hooz]

Do you know you need to dose potassium? It does not necessarily deplete. it did not in my previous tank. It reflects potassium in foods relative to potassium in newly built tissues.

What do you mean by uses a slightly different approach to trace elements?

Potassium test kits are all notoriously terrible, but I was planning on using 6 month ICPs to track. I don't know for sure yet what my uptake is, I just thought it appeared to be a more "complete" solution with the inclusion of potassium.

The Nyos approach is to split the trace elements into 3 "solutions" instead of 2 (TM) or 4 (RedSea). They said they found that if they kept the iron in its own lower pH solution until mixing into the calcium part of the 2-part, it didn't precipitate so they didn't have to include as much. Other than that, they're one of the very few trace element mixes that include potassium, as mentioned before.

The options I was considering were:

1. ESV + TM traces = Decent pH boost, ionic balance for salinity increase, but no magnesium and no potassium

3. ESV + Nyos traces = Decent pH boost, ionic balance for salinity increase, adds potassium, but still no magnesium

3. Nyos 2-part + Nyos Traces = Decent pH boost, ionic balance for salinity, includes both potassium and magnesium

I was hoping that the NAF 2-part could be run similarly to option 3 above, with the added benefit of the extra pH boost from the hydroxide. That would be like the "ultimate", true 2-part. Running everything off 2 dosing pumps, getting the most "complete" dosing solution, the highest pH boost and still having the ability to tune the traces without going full moonshiners.