Not a feesh supplements

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you are tracking potassium, you can always stop using it if potassium gets too high.

I don't have any opinion of the suitability of the different approaches. How much of any trace element to add is going to depend a lot on the nature of the aquarium. I'm not a fan of tying certain trace elements(e.g., iron and manganese) to calcification rates since it many tanks (such as mine) the primary user of those trace elements are not corals, but macroalgae and microalgae.

 

[hunterallen40]

1. ESV + TM traces = Decent pH boost, ionic balance for salinity increase, but no magnesium and no potassium

3. ESV + Nyos traces = Decent pH boost, ionic balance for salinity increase, adds potassium, but still no magnesium

3. Nyos 2-part + Nyos Traces = Decent pH boost, ionic balance for salinity, includes both potassium and magnesium

There is a lot of nuance to these statements, and, honestly, we are at the word of the manufacturer. Nyos is very new, and there is very little information available about the amounts of magnesium included in that solution.

There is also no word (or standard, for that matter) about the amounts of certain trace elements found in the nyos blends, and it's unclear to me how much of those would be needed to run your reef.

I was hoping that the NAF 2-part could be run similarly to option 3 above, with the added benefit of the extra pH boost from the hydroxide.

You certainly could run our two part in a similar way to option 3 (if you mean to add the nyos stuff on top of it), but I would be very hesitant to add anything aside from ion 2.

But, in my opinion, doing so just adds extra cost, and it would be better to just try our already mixed trace blend. I am confident that this option, although it provides fewer knobs to twist, will yield better results in the long run.

We use only our two part to run our systems, with zero customization. This blend runs our SPS, LPS, mixed, and our pop up frag systems (for occasional overflow haha). This blend also runs on our ever increasing amount of customer tanks all over the country. It's very well tested, and I am very confident in its quality.

There is no true "right answer" here, so this is just an opinion.

There is also no one size fits all approach, so you may wish to add certain elements if necessary (e.g. if you have a lot of macro algae, you may need a lot more manganese / iron than we provide), but i would start from the trace blend and see if you need to tweak from there.

 

[hunterallen40]

If you are tracking potassium, you can always stop using it if potassium gets too high.

Not to derail things, but I'm legitimately curious if you have an upper bound for potassium, and if you have tested it at elevated levels? I have seen some folks dosing it individually and hitting 450+ ppm without issue.

Generally I'm happy with 400+ ppm, but like it less than my calcium. I admittedly don't have any reason for that target, though, and just aim a bit higher than NSW.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not to derail things, but I'm legitimately curious if you have an upper bound for potassium, and if you have tested it at elevated levels? I have seen some folks dosing it individually and hitting 450+ ppm without issue.

Generally I'm happy with 400+ ppm, but like it less than my calcium. I admittedly don't have any reason for that target, though, and just aim a bit higher than NSW.

The primary info I have on problems from elevated potassium comes from Lasse's experience.

Adding NO3 to other solution.

Since dosing phytoplankton, my nitrates has lowered significantly. Can I add KNO3 to any or all of these solutions I'm currently dosing without issue? Salifert KH buffer. TM All for reef. Live phytoplankton. I guess the easiest way would be just adding the extra NO3 while culturing the phyto...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[hunterallen40]

The primary info I have on problems from elevated potassium comes from Lasse's experience.

Adding NO3 to other solution.

Since dosing phytoplankton, my nitrates has lowered significantly. Can I add KNO3 to any or all of these solutions I'm currently dosing without issue? Salifert KH buffer. TM All for reef. Live phytoplankton. I guess the easiest way would be just adding the extra NO3 while culturing the phyto...

www.reef2reef.com

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Hooz]

There is a lot of nuance to these statements, and, honestly, we are at the word of the manufacturer. Nyos is very new, and there is very little information available about the amounts of magnesium included in that solution.

There is also no word (or standard, for that matter) about the amounts of certain trace elements found in the nyos blends, and it's unclear to me how much of those would be needed to run your reef.



You certainly could run our two part in a similar way to option 3 (if you mean to add the nyos stuff on top of it), but I would be very hesitant to add anything aside from ion 2.

But, in my opinion, doing so just adds extra cost, and it would be better to just try our already mixed trace blend. I am confident that this option, although it provides fewer knobs to twist, will yield better results in the long run.

We use only our two part to run our systems, with zero customization. This blend runs our SPS, LPS, mixed, and our pop up frag systems (for occasional overflow haha). This blend also runs on our ever increasing amount of customer tanks all over the country. It's very well tested, and I am very confident in its quality.

There is no true "right answer" here, so this is just an opinion.

There is also no one size fits all approach, so you may wish to add certain elements if necessary (e.g. if you have a lot of macro algae, you may need a lot more manganese / iron than we provide), but i would start from the trace blend and see if you need to tweak from there.

I'm going to give it a go!

Now I need to figure out a different dosing container. I don't want to sacrifice my "cool" acrylic one.

 

[hunterallen40]

I'm going to give it a go!

Now I need to figure out a different dosing container. I don't want to sacrifice my "cool" acrylic one.

Excellent! I hope you will share your experience here! Customer photos are our favorite kind of photos!

I recommend grabbing our starter kit, then, which also has two one-gallon jugs in it ($5 each). You can either dose form them directly (just drill a hole in the top) or use them for safer storage of your premixed solution.

 

[NoriSheet]

As someone who is currently running AFR with relatively low demand but wanting a PH boost, would NAF two part be more beneficial than switching to Kalkwasser? From what I understand, Kalkwasser doesnt take into account Mag and trace elements but I am not opposed to dosing those as needed. NAF offers a PH boost as well as taking into account Mag and trace elements. Seems like a no brainer to me but I'm curious if I am missing anything. Are there other pros and cons to each that I am missing?

 

[hunterallen40]

As someone who is currently running AFR with relatively low demand but wanting a PH boost, would NAF two part be more beneficial than switching to Kalkwasser?

Implicit bias granted, this is what I firmly believe (I use our product for all our reefs).

Are there other pros and cons to each that I am missing?

You hit the main nail right on the head with the pros: there are no trace elements in kalkwasser (outside of impurities), and you have to dose _substantially_ more kalkwasser to achieve the same alkalinity increase (you can play with our calculator on the product page to compare, but 1000 mL of saturated kalkwasser is equivalent to ~16.3 mL of our alkalinity).

For cons, salinity will increase as you dose our two part. Each gallon of our two part adds ~556 grams NaCl to your aquarium. We do compensate for this (as well as consumption), but the reality is we are only finding a nice middle ground. Over time ions will drift, but that's not something AFR or Kalkwasser can avoid entirely either (they just don't constantly add a substantial amount of NaCl specifically).

You are also at the mercy of our trace blend, and for that you just have to trust me.

Other than that, this is exactly why I made this product in the first place. I was using kalkwasser for pH, and wanted more trace elements so I switched to sodium hydroxide. Couple years later... Here we are :).

It is still, in my humble (and very biased) opinion, a no brainer ;).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As someone who is currently running AFR with relatively low demand but wanting a PH boost, would NAF two part be more beneficial than switching to Kalkwasser? From what I understand, Kalkwasser doesnt take into account Mag and trace elements but I am not opposed to dosing those as needed. NAF offers a PH boost as well as taking into account Mag and trace elements. Seems like a no brainer to me but I'm curious if I am missing anything. Are there other pros and cons to each that I am missing?

From a pH perspective it will be less useful, assuming it is a carbonate based product.

The pH effect of any alk additive is very low when demand is low.

 

[hunterallen40]

From a pH perspective it will be less useful, assuming it is a carbonate based product.

The pH effect of any alk additive is very low when demand is low.

This is a sodium hydroxide based product, actually.

 

[BriDroid]

I’m intrigued, always looking for something better

Do you dose equal amounts of parts 1 and 2? Or do you have to dial in each part for the proper dose? I’m currently using AFR.

 

[hunterallen40]

I’m intrigued, always looking for something better

Do you dose equal amounts of parts 1 and 2? Or do you have to dial in each part for the proper dose? I’m currently using AFR.

Start with equal amounts of each. I recommend dosing them equally and occasionally (monthly or less) correcting drift by adding a calcium / magnesium correction solution. That said, I don't expect any substantial drift.

If you are curious about the dosage, you can put the current AFR dose into our calculator on the product page to see your starting dose with this product.

 

[BriDroid]

Start with equal amounts of each. I recommend dosing them equally and occasionally (monthly or less) correcting drift by adding a calcium / magnesium correction solution. That said, I don't expect any substantial drift.

If you are curious about the dosage, you can put the current AFR dose into our calculator on the product page to see your starting dose with this product.

One last question. Is this a dump it all in at the same dose like AFR or do you spread it out with smaller doses to keep alkalinity stable?

 

[hunterallen40]

One last question. Is this a dump it all in at the same dose like AFR or do you spread it out with smaller doses to keep alkalinity stable?

No limit on questions, especially good ones!

I definitely recommend splitting the dose up as much as you can. More frequent, smaller doses is much safer than a single bolus dose, and you are less likely to get precipitation in that manner.

More generally, I realy don't recommend hand dosing sodium hydroxide solutions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is a sodium hydroxide based product, actually.

Ok, then it is similar to kalk in pH effect.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One last question. Is this a dump it all in at the same dose like AFR or do you spread it out with smaller doses to keep alkalinity stable?

No, never dump in hydroxide all at once unless the dose is very small.

 

[hunterallen40]

Fun update: Serious Reefs just did a full video on our product for anyone interested!

 

[Hooz]

Is the nano tank version the same as the regular (same traces, etc), just diluted more so we can do larger doses? I have two tanks I'm looking at this 2-part for. One is a 65g tank, but the other is only 12g. Could I make up one batch of the "normal", then dilute some of it for the "nano"?

 

[hunterallen40]

Is the nano tank version the same as the regular (same traces, etc), just diluted more so we can do larger doses? I have two tanks I'm looking at this 2-part for. One is a 65g tank, but the other is only 12g. Could I make up one batch of the "normal", then dilute some of it for the "nano"?

Yes -- exactly. The nano concentrate is 1/8 the strength as the all it two, which makes it much easier to split up doses for a nano tank. We had a lot of customers with smaller systems that were dosing between which for lye.

We used volumetric flasks to accurately measure for dilution which helps maintain consistent results, but if you use your own methods for dilution that should be fine as well. :)