Odd breathing?

[rtrdeuce]

Hello, all. I want to preface this in saying I am very new to the hobby and would like another set of eyes and opinions on if I am experiencing a larger issue. Currently in the tank are various CUC, two clowns, a Melanarus, McCosker's, Ruby Finned, Banggai Cardinal, a one-eyed firefish (got him that way), and a diamond goby. I appear to be in various stages of the "uglies", though I now make my own rodi water and mix my own salt. The tank is a 75g. All tests are conducted with API, salt is measured with a cheap refractometer from petco, phosphate and alkalinity with a hanna checker.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate appears to be between 5.0 and 10 ppm
Salt is at 35 ppm
Temp is set at 78 +/- 1 with an inkbird
Ph unsure but I made custom screen lids for gas exchange, a 850gph powerhead is disrupting the surface as well
phosphate, alkalinity are all within an acceptable range based on what I've read here.

Noticing weird breathing habits the past couple of days. I know that wrasse are prone to "yawning" as a sign of aggression, but I've seen the firefish "yawn" and the goby as well. One clownfish acts like there is an issue, constantly at the surface in the corner of the tank, comes out in the tank to feed, but usually spits everything out (has refused bloodworms and reef frenzy). In addition, neither of the clowns will take flakes. I am unsure if that is just "clowns being clowns" or the warning signs of a major issue. She also seems to really hate the flow and comes out more when I cut the powerhead off for water changes etc. Attached are my best attempts at video capturing the ruby fin who seems to be laboring more than the others, though her appetite is in check. I have noticed what I consider to be a "white-stringy poop", though I'm unsure who it came from, as I understand it, clowns can produce that with no issues present. Isn't all fish waste stringy, anyway?

Edit: Forgot to mention I did a freshwater dip with the firefish, 5 minutes, noticed his gills kind of flush red, but there were no flukes that I could see.

Ruby finned


McCoskers, clowns, and cardinal

 

[MnFish1]

I wonder - did you happen to QT any of the fish before adding them? If so, did you use medication - and what protocol did you use. Yawning and breathing issues can both be a symptom of flukes - which may not be visible even in a FW dip.

 

[rtrdeuce]

I wonder - did you happen to QT any of the fish before adding them? If so, did you use medication - and what protocol did you use. Yawning and breathing issues can both be a symptom of flukes - which may not be visible even in a FW dip.

These fish all came from a LFS that copper treats their tanks, ran on a separate system than wild caught.. so, the two clowns went straight in, being the first. The rest were only in a 20g observation tank for a week maybe, no more than 2 fish were added to the main tank at a time. The observation tank never had more than two fish at a time. I test the water daily, sometimes twice. Ammonia API testing is backed up with a badge, so I am 100% confident it is not ammonia burn or anything like that.

Going forward, and having read more information, I've since purchased a couple of 10g tanks and will be utilizing the TTM method from humble fish.

 

[rtrdeuce]

I've got to go back and correct some things. A lot of the live rock, about 40 lbs., was given to me from an existing tank. I suppose that could do it. Completely escaped my mind.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello, all. I want to preface this in saying I am very new to the hobby and would like another set of eyes and opinions on if I am experiencing a larger issue. Currently in the tank are various CUC, two clowns, a Melanarus, McCosker's, Ruby Finned, Banggai Cardinal, a one-eyed firefish (got him that way), and a diamond goby. I appear to be in various stages of the "uglies", though I now make my own rodi water and mix my own salt. The tank is a 75g. All tests are conducted with API, salt is measured with a cheap refractometer from petco, phosphate and alkalinity with a hanna checker.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate appears to be between 5.0 and 10 ppm
Salt is at 35 ppm
Temp is set at 78 +/- 1 with an inkbird
Ph unsure but I made custom screen lids for gas exchange, a 850gph powerhead is disrupting the surface as well
phosphate, alkalinity are all within an acceptable range based on what I've read here.

Noticing weird breathing habits the past couple of days. I know that wrasse are prone to "yawning" as a sign of aggression, but I've seen the firefish "yawn" and the goby as well. One clownfish acts like there is an issue, constantly at the surface in the corner of the tank, comes out in the tank to feed, but usually spits everything out (has refused bloodworms and reef frenzy). In addition, neither of the clowns will take flakes. I am unsure if that is just "clowns being clowns" or the warning signs of a major issue. She also seems to really hate the flow and comes out more when I cut the powerhead off for water changes etc. Attached are my best attempts at video capturing the ruby fin who seems to be laboring more than the others, though her appetite is in check. I have noticed what I consider to be a "white-stringy poop", though I'm unsure who it came from, as I understand it, clowns can produce that with no issues present. Isn't all fish waste stringy, anyway?

Edit: Forgot to mention I did a freshwater dip with the firefish, 5 minutes, noticed his gills kind of flush red, but there were no flukes that I could see.

Ruby finned


McCoskers, clowns, and cardinal

I dont see signs of flukes which this fish rarely gets but is susceptible to and appears to be signs of intimidation. Video was very short and I did not see sand but they require 2-3" minimum. Overall fish seems normal in behavior and I would suggest as an assurance to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at. One warning when quarantining is to keep in mind - They love to jump

 

[rtrdeuce]

I dont see signs of flukes which this fish rarely gets but appears to be signs of intimidation. Video was very short and I did not see sand but they require 2-3" minimum. Overall fish seems normal in behavior and I would suggest as an assurance to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at

Thank you for responding. There is about a 2-3" sand in places for hiding, the melanarus sleeps in it, I am unaware if the fairy does. I am willing to spend money on a quality ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit if one exists, seems those are harder to come by? I will continue to observe and take a sample to the LFS. The McCosker's runs the tank, even though the melanarus is larger. I have only seen a slight bit of chasing, mostly at night when the flasher wants to go to bed he protects his hole in the rock. Everyone else is pretty peaceful. The melanarus is the larger fish, maybe 3", the ruby finned is closer to < 2", with the flasher 2.25" maybe. They all completely ignore the goby, clowns, and firefish.

My apologies for the short video, seems I uploaded the wrong one. Here is a longer video.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

These fish all came from a LFS that copper treats their tanks, ran on a separate system than wild caught.. so, the two clowns went straight in, being the first. The rest were only in a 20g observation tank for a week maybe, no more than 2 fish were added to the main tank at a time. The observation tank never had more than two fish at a time. I test the water daily, sometimes twice. Ammonia API testing is backed up with a badge, so I am 100% confident it is not ammonia burn or anything like that.

Going forward, and having read more information, I've since purchased a couple of 10g tanks and will be utilizing the TTM method from humble fish.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Yawning can be a sign of gill flukes. Copper won’t treat for that, did the LFS use praziquantel at all?

TTM seems like a cool idea, but it falls short for treating protozoans that have direct development, and for treating flukes at all. Sometimes, TTM is sometimes modified/enhanced by using hydrogen peroxide, but that still doesn’t kill fluke eggs. In the end, it is more stressful to do this than to just run a standard quarantine:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[rtrdeuce]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Yawning can be a sign of gill flukes. Copper won’t treat for that, did the LFS use praziquantel at all?

TTM seems like a cool idea, but it falls short for treating protozoans that have direct development, and for treating flukes at all. Sometimes, TTM is sometimes modified/enhanced by using hydrogen peroxide, but that still doesn’t kill fluke eggs. In the end, it is more stressful to do this than to just run a standard quarantine:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

I am not sure if they did or not, they used some weird term but all I heard was "copper" and "don't put this water in your tank" .

I am in the process of acquiring a much larger tank that will have a proper refugium. When I get ready to move these fish, would it be advisable to follow those quarantine procedures before adding them to the new tank? I do not want to carry anything over if I can help it. I do have a hanna copper checker arriving today, along with a Milwaukee digital refractometer, but amazon totally glitched out on me and removed my copper power, so will have to reorder that. Currently the only medication I have is prazipro, with seachem metro shipping soon. I will post a proper tank build thread when everything is setup and ready to go.

Would it be ignorant to pull all these fish out and treat them, and allow the 75 to fallow while waiting for the new tank to get up and running? I have everything already for the TTM so could accommodate all my fish between the 20 and the two 10s, though the 20g has 20 lbs of sand and a piece of live rock in it, so I would have to empty that and disinfect it.

 

[MnFish1]

These fish all came from a LFS that copper treats their tanks, ran on a separate system than wild caught.. so, the two clowns went straight in, being the first. The rest were only in a 20g observation tank for a week maybe, no more than 2 fish were added to the main tank at a time. The observation tank never had more than two fish at a time. I test the water daily, sometimes twice. Ammonia API testing is backed up with a badge, so I am 100% confident it is not ammonia burn or anything like that.

Going forward, and having read more information, I've since purchased a couple of 10g tanks and will be utilizing the TTM method from humble fish.

So - I guess in your situation, I would assume that your fish were not quarantined properly at the fish store. and I would institute a quarantine treatment for them all either way.

 

[MnFish1]

I am not sure if they did or not, they used some weird term but all I heard was "copper" and "don't put this water in your tank" .

Would it be ignorant to pull all these fish out and treat them, and allow the 75 to fallow while waiting for the new tank to get up and running? I have everything already for the TTM so could accommodate all my fish between the 20 and the two 10s, though the 20g has 20 lbs of sand and a piece of live rock in it, so I would have to empty that and disinfect it.

I think that would be the best idea - i.e. not ignorant... JMHO

 

[MnFish1]

PS - then remember - (I think you mentioned it - but somehow I can't go back up the threat) - the 60-76 day fallow period.

 

[rtrdeuce]

Well, put it off as long as I could. A major tank upgrade is coming Friday w/ two yellow tangs so I was going to wait and start quarantining until then. This morning, after feeding the fish and looking at things overall, I noticed my royal gramma ate and then went straight to a rock to hide.. Fortunately for me, the rock is really close to the front of the glass so I was able to look really hard at her. I noticed something odd between the eyes that appeared to move slightly. I fished her out and gave her a freshwater dip and sure enough, it's flukes. Large ones, too. My copper power that I ordered on Amazon when I first made this thread will be here Tuesday.

I have since pulled all of my fish out for baths, only the gramma showed flukes. At any rate, they'll all be going through quarantine. I'm just really nervous about my wrasses. Some say ramp up, some say don't.. I will follow the current procedures and will not ramp up. I set up a secondary tank for my inverts, they'll just go the 45 days and then move to the new tank.

 

[Jekyl]

C

Well, put it off as long as I could. A major tank upgrade is coming Friday w/ two yellow tangs so I was going to wait and start quarantining until then. This morning, after feeding the fish and looking at things overall, I noticed my royal gramma ate and then went straight to a rock to hide.. Fortunately for me, the rock is really close to the front of the glass so I was able to look really hard at her. I noticed something odd between the eyes that appeared to move slightly. I fished her out and gave her a freshwater dip and sure enough, it's flukes. Large ones, too. My copper power that I ordered on Amazon when I first made this thread will be here Tuesday.

I have since pulled all of my fish out for baths, only the gramma showed flukes. At any rate, they'll all be going through quarantine. I'm just really nervous about my wrasses. Some say ramp up, some say don't.. I will follow the current procedures and will not ramp up. I set up a secondary tank for my inverts, they'll just go the 45 days and then move to the new tank.

Can't find a better person than Jay to give protocols. Best of luck with everything.