Orchid Dottyback Breeding Attempt

PeterLL

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Hello Everyone,
I've noticed breeding behaviour from my orchids for some weeks now, and noticed them guarding eggs. Lockdown's stronger than ever and I am not going anywhere. So, why not give raising these Orchid Dottyback eggs a go.
These are some eggs I have managed to capture today, but don't think these will have much chance as much of the equipment is not here.
Here they are for a closer look:
Fish eggs.jpeg

Fish eggs 2.jpeg

The plan for this is as follows:
1) Capturing the Eggs.
The Orchid has been spawning in a cave for a few egg batches now. I plan to insert a PVC tube into this cave, hope the orchid takes a liking, and then lay the eggs in this PVC tubing. Assuming all goes to plan, I will let the egg's remain for 3 days, and then pull the PVC tube, and gently dislodge the egg's into a fish egg tumbler, which will keep a gentle flow over the eggs until they hatch.

2) Raising Larvae
The fish egg tumbler will be put into an old, black iQuatics salt bucket, filled with 15l of fresh salt water, rigid airline tubing and a heater directly in the centre to create even, donut shaped flow. Flow restrictor on the air pump to make sure the flow is not too great.
Hopefully once they hatch, which should be right after lights out, I can remove the egg tumbler.

3) Nutrient Management
I will do a 5l/day water change which will be done through almost drip acclimating the new water in and then removing 5L using the airline with floss over the end. I will also use approximately 1ml/ a day of prime in the water change water to combat ammonia.
A small Ikea desk light will provide gentle light. There will be a small Sochting Oxidator in the bucket/larvae bucket.

4) Feeding
Food is without the biggest hurdle people seem to face. So far, I have a Tigriopus californicus culture in my old quarantine tank. I have a Tisbe Bimineinsis culture going in a pair of 4.5l culture vessels. I will culture Rotifers in an old salt bucket as well, feeding them live phyto concentrate and rotifer enrichment from reef phyto. I also have Artemia Eggs and a hatchery kit on the way. The plan is to, for the first 9 days to feed the Tisbe Bimineinsis and Rotifers. From Day 9 onwards, once they are larger, I will start to feed the Baby Brine Shrimp and T. Californicus too.

Any feedback is very, very happily taken and appreciated!

Thank You!
 
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Wolf89

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I'll be honest I am not sure those are available in the UK. Does the fish directly feed on both or is the T-Iso just a feed for the Parvo Pods?
Thank You
T iso is needed for the pods as well as to tint the larval tank
 
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PeterLL

PeterLL

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T iso is needed for the pods as well as to tint the larval tank
Thanks, so I get that it feeds the pods, but why does the larval tank need to be tinted? I didn't think fish would consume a microalgae so I feel like it potentially leads to what could just be further pollution of the larval tank?
 
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PeterLL

PeterLL

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FWIW, the Rotifer Enrichment I feed is a blend of Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis, and this will be what I feed the Rotifer's and BBS before feeding them to the fish. So the larval fish will be getting a Isochrysis packed Rotifers and BBS aat all points.
 

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Do you have the book Breeding the orchid dottyback? If not get it. Martin has a little humor in it too..
The biggest challenge with them is finding the right size and having very nutrient rich food.
You are going to want the best enrichment for copepods. You might be able to supplement with s strain rotifers but copepods might be essential.
Tiger pods may be a little big.
I have never tried raising dottyback yet though.
 

ThRoewer

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You will get best results with small copepod nauplii to raise the larvae but it can be done to some extent with rotifers and brine shrimp nauplii if you make sure they are enriched at a minimum with live algae or algae paste. I got a fridmani larvae up to metamorphosis but lost it there due to sudden fright syndrome because back then I didn't have any enrichment foods for the rotifers and Artemia nauplii.
As for the live algae you will need when culturing Parvocalanus, that can actually be a number of species as long as they are motile and have the right nutritional profile. Isochrysis galbana (Iso) or Tisochrysis lutea (T-Iso) are generally preferred as they are easiest to culture and have a good nutritional profile. But you could also use Tetraselmis, Rhodomonas, and a number of other motile algae.
What does not work well as feeds for Parvocalanus are non motile algae like Nannochloropsis or algae paste.
 
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PeterLL

PeterLL

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You will get best results with small copepod nauplii to raise the larvae but it can be done to some extent with rotifers and brine shrimp nauplii if you make sure they are enriched at a minimum with live algae or algae paste. I got a fridmani larvae up to metamorphosis but lost it there due to sudden fright syndrome because back then I didn't have any enrichment foods for the rotifers and Artemia nauplii.
As for the live algae you will need when culturing Parvocalanus, that can actually be a number of species as long as they are motile and have the right nutritional profile. Isochrysis galbana (Iso) or Tisochrysis lutea (T-Iso) are generally preferred as they are easiest to culture and have a good nutritional profile. But you could also use Tetraselmis, Rhodomonas, and a number of other motile algae.
What does not work well as feeds for Parvocalanus are non motile algae like Nannochloropsis or algae paste.
Hi, thank you for the reply!

The BBS, Rotifers and Copepods will be gut packed with a live Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis phytoplankton concentrate blend. Can I ask why Parvocalanus Copepods are necessary as opposed to a combination of Rotifers and Tisbe Copepods which seem to be in the same size range as the Parvocalanus.
The Tisbe pods are feed flake before gut packing them a bit, and the rotifers will be fed a live algae mix of Nannochloropsis & Tetraselmis Phytoplankton.

I do not actually plan to culture any phyto, rather buy a live concentrate from a shop here in the UK.
Not trying to argue, just understand so thank you for the help :)
 
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PeterLL

PeterLL

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Do you have the book Breeding the orchid dottyback? If not get it. Martin has a little humor in it too..
The biggest challenge with them is finding the right size and having very nutrient rich food.
You are going to want the best enrichment for copepods. You might be able to supplement with s strain rotifers but copepods might be essential.
Tiger pods may be a little big.
I have never tried raising dottyback yet though.
I do not have the book, mostly following other people who have succesfully raised them, notably an article in I think Reefkeeping Magazine. I do question how relevant a book will be that is 25 years old. I mean that in no disrespect, just that the equipment and food's available nowadays must be worlds different.
And I do plan to feed copepods, Tisbe when young, and Tigriopus at 9 days when they are larger and should be able to feed them.
Thank You for the feedback! :)
 
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Wolf89

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I do not have the book, mostly following other people who have succesfully raised them, notably an article in I think Reefkeeping Magazine. I do question how relevant a book will be that is 25 years old. I mean that in no disrespect, just that the equipment and food's available nowadays must be worlds different.
And I do plan to feed copepods, Tisbe when young, and Tigriopus at 9 days when they are larger and should be able to feed them.
Thank You for the feedback! :)
I have the book. It's more of a journal than a how to guide. The methods the author uses are different than whats in use now. He used rotifers and wild collected plankton. We would collect ocean plankton as food on the daily. I've tried this, but usually you will end up with too many pests.
 

Wolf89

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Thanks, so I get that it feeds the pods, but why does the larval tank need to be tinted? I didn't think fish would consume a microalgae so I feel like it potentially leads to what could just be further pollution of the larval tank?
It keeps the live food enriched and larval fish need contrast in their water to be able to see their prey.
 

ThRoewer

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Hi, thank you for the reply!

The BBS, Rotifers and Copepods will be gut packed with a live Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis phytoplankton concentrate blend. Can I ask why Parvocalanus Copepods are necessary as opposed to a combination of Rotifers and Tisbe Copepods which seem to be in the same size range as the Parvocalanus.
The Tisbe pods are feed flake before gut packing them a bit, and the rotifers will be fed a live algae mix of Nannochloropsis & Tetraselmis Phytoplankton.

I do not actually plan to culture any phyto, rather buy a live concentrate from a shop here in the UK.
Not trying to argue, just understand so thank you for the help :)
Tisbe or Apocyclops work but Parvocalanus reproduces faster and is therefore preferable, especially if you want to raise larger numbers without running out of food.
 
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PeterLL

PeterLL

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I have the book. It's more of a journal than a how to guide. The methods the author uses are different than whats in use now. He used rotifers and wild collected plankton. We would collect ocean plankton as food on the daily. I've tried this, but usually you will end up with too many pests.
That's really interesting that all the food was wild collected, amazing how far we have come and that we can now just stick some rotifers in a tub with phyto we buy on the internet.
Tisbe or Apocyclops work but Parvocalanus reproduces faster and is therefore preferable, especially if you want to raise larger numbers without running out of food.

Ahhh I see I see. I think the plan is now to culture Tisbe Pods in a 40l underbed tub, and another smaller 4.5l jar as a back up. Rotifers will be cultured in a 40l plastic storage box, and also a 10l old salt bucket, so a fair amount of culturing and should hopefully produce enough live food for them.
Unfortunatly I don't think Parvocalanus are available in the UK, I already had to import TIsbe pods from the US which came with a fair price tag already.

Thank You very much for the input folks!
 
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PeterLL

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Think I have already made a fanny of it. I got PVC pipes and placed them in the tank with the intention of making the capture easier. In turn J have blocked off his cave, one that was actually fairly accessible for me. Now he’s ignoring all the PVC pipes, and nested into a cave that I can’t look into or access. I’m going to keep blocking off caves until he chooses the original accessible cave, or a PVC pipe, unless anyone has any ideas??
 

Wolf89

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Atleast SOMEONE appreciates my PVC
D325F90B-0088-4CA5-B769-16E748EA6629.jpeg
Is that a kamohara blenny? Get another are they will use the pipe to breed as well. As far as the dottybacks go, if the blenny starts sleeping in it, it won't use it as a nest.
 
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