Palytoxin Thread Apology.
- Thread starter HolySmoke
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The zoanthid forums on any board in my opinion are also a balancing source of data. That’s a highly content focused group to sample for wipeouts of home along with the articles. Approaching twenty years of practical feedback logged, no bias.
they deal with the zos daily, mail them out and get feedback from handlers— josh pork sandwich how’s he even reefing he’s walking palytoxin it would seem
since the alert didn’t come from the #1 zone where they handle offenders, zoanthid forums, and our deep cleaning thread is applied worldwide for five years ive got to keep a little bit of an open mind for doubt, not disrespectfully but due to data conflicts and trends.
also admitted: new discoveries are made from snippets and clues that add up to new takeaways and with Dr’s entertaining the issue that lends heavy weight. I would not think e.r. Drs waste any time in diagnostics using the best science of the day.
they deal with the zos daily, mail them out and get feedback from handlers— josh pork sandwich how’s he even reefing he’s walking palytoxin it would seem
since the alert didn’t come from the #1 zone where they handle offenders, zoanthid forums, and our deep cleaning thread is applied worldwide for five years ive got to keep a little bit of an open mind for doubt, not disrespectfully but due to data conflicts and trends.
also admitted: new discoveries are made from snippets and clues that add up to new takeaways and with Dr’s entertaining the issue that lends heavy weight. I would not think e.r. Drs waste any time in diagnostics using the best science of the day.
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I hear what you are saying but I don't think I have ever seen Josh post up pictures of large bland grandi palys haha. He usually has beautifully bright contrasting zoa gardens. I also agree about the Zoa forums being the best unbiased place to look for cases but for every case you read about like mine you have to figure there are 4 or 5 that go undiagnosed or unreported.
I am totally speculating but I believe a very small number of palythoa have high enough levels to cause symptoms like we experienced today. So people can have the craziest collection of zoas in the world and collectively still have less palytoxin than a couple polyps of the right species.
I have quite a few large grandis in my tank bc I have always liked them. They aren't expensive, exotic or crazy colors but I always thought of them as unique. The bigger the polyp the more I liked them.
That the offenders were always present/owned in each case is also a huge red flag admitted as well, and significant others who have no vested interest in reefing being sick as well + pets 
I’m very sorry for that stress. Glad you all are ok that’s serious business anyway it’s sliced.
I’m very sorry for that stress. Glad you all are ok that’s serious business anyway it’s sliced.That the offenders were always present/owned in each case is also a huge red flag admitted as well, and significant others who have no vested interest in reefing being sick as well + pets
Thank you and it is quite ironic the first time my wife has helped me work on the tank this happens. I'm not quite sure what you mean in that first part of your post about offenders present owned?
Meaning the tanks really did have palythoa or zos during the event. It wasn’t an lps focus tank in the concerns, they legit all seemed to have palys at minimum
When I bought my first paly 23 yrs ago, my LFS warned me about paly toxin.
You may have only heard about it 5 years ago, but it's certainly been around in the hobby for far longer.
gotcha I took your red flag as possible speculation and not possible confirmation. Regardless I agree with all your statements that there has to be or should be a test to see actual exposure levels in the body. Testing the palys in question is kinda pointless in my opinion. They took our blood levels and just watched our white cell counts. We both were trending down so they told us to come back immediately if symptoms persist or get worse.
I think what he means is we heard about it but it was just something people didnt worry too much about. Basically not very common at all and now it is. I don't want to speak for him though.
its simply not a consideration in my reef decades, I too read an article in the 90s about primitive spears being dipped in palys, those articles go back decades. For someone to recommend via relay isn’t surprising
it would be surprising if the lfs owner handling all the stock ins and outs gave a personal testimony on the matter. My lfs owners ranging from El Paso to cruces to Lubbock simply never got paly poisoning it wasn’t even discussed. Their flus responded to flu medicine
I’m saying that while living the life of a true reef hack in person and online for half my adult life this is only something that happened on the internet. That isn’t being mean it’s relaying the fact we got lucky all these years. I used to make my kiddo wear gloves when helping but we never protected against aerosols and if that shows to be a concern in future particle testing I’ll feel guilty about having taken that chance. Lots of my pico tanks had brown palys they were a staple $3 coral
those systems highly concentrated every aspect of coral exudate that’s not an understatement/ hundreds of dollars of frags including palys in a single gallon and the sole circulation was bubbling, a literal aerosol pump 24x7. I think I could dredge up a pic from old days showing a good twenty head brown paly colony in a reef bowl it took them years to thin out and dieoff as other corals selected better. They were as common as any coral possible, in private message I must have recommended them to ten thousand pico reef keepers.
im now curious if nano-reef.com has any testimonies they’re water concentrators.
it would be surprising if the lfs owner handling all the stock ins and outs gave a personal testimony on the matter. My lfs owners ranging from El Paso to cruces to Lubbock simply never got paly poisoning it wasn’t even discussed. Their flus responded to flu medicine
I’m saying that while living the life of a true reef hack in person and online for half my adult life this is only something that happened on the internet. That isn’t being mean it’s relaying the fact we got lucky all these years. I used to make my kiddo wear gloves when helping but we never protected against aerosols and if that shows to be a concern in future particle testing I’ll feel guilty about having taken that chance. Lots of my pico tanks had brown palys they were a staple $3 coral
those systems highly concentrated every aspect of coral exudate that’s not an understatement/ hundreds of dollars of frags including palys in a single gallon and the sole circulation was bubbling, a literal aerosol pump 24x7. I think I could dredge up a pic from old days showing a good twenty head brown paly colony in a reef bowl it took them years to thin out and dieoff as other corals selected better. They were as common as any coral possible, in private message I must have recommended them to ten thousand pico reef keepers.
im now curious if nano-reef.com has any testimonies they’re water concentrators.
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Will do but going to keep my distance from the tank for a little while and then I have to clean everything I touched. Trust me I will post those pictures. It is only 6 or so different types of Palys and like I said in the other thread I'm pretty sure it was some ugly brown button palys that snuck in on a frag of Nuclear green palys. I wanted to hack the colony up and remove the bottom polyps but didn't for fear of palytoxin go figure. I'm going to get a full tyvek suit and cut only a couple nuclear greens (to minimize exposure) and chuck the rest in the woods
only kidding about the tyvek suit
I have a friend that got severe paly poisoning a few years ago but you'd never hear about it because they aren't on any of these forums.
Just because its being discussed more today on the internet is not proof that it wasn't happening prior to message boards.
Well maybe some folks have stronger reactions to it than others. Think how bee venom irritates most people but can cause severe reactions in those that are allergic (there’s also speculation that repeated exposure might have something to do with that).
There’s more than just palys in your reef tank that can be bad for you too.
There’s more than just palys in your reef tank that can be bad for you too.
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how did they differentiate marinum infections from specific palytoxin in your friend Zalick / bacterial vs an assigned compound yet to be mentioned in an autopsy
it’s amazing how certain we are, its case closed, we just don’t require any blood tests or screenings or chromatographs or assays or genetic proofs. Case closed it is then. I’ve never had one friend that exhibited a zoonotic infection from a fish tank. It’s not common though I realize everyone will have a friend of a friend now.
we will now discount reef owners who got the legit flu and were cured with flu medicine, they owned a reef it was palytoxin.
it’s amazing how certain we are, its case closed, we just don’t require any blood tests or screenings or chromatographs or assays or genetic proofs. Case closed it is then. I’ve never had one friend that exhibited a zoonotic infection from a fish tank. It’s not common though I realize everyone will have a friend of a friend now.
we will now discount reef owners who got the legit flu and were cured with flu medicine, they owned a reef it was palytoxin.
Lol there’s no way I’m sticking around on this one, I’m learning the signs of when to steer clear in 2021+
Holysmoke your perspective has caused me some pause that’s for sure, its serious business any way it’s sliced. Your link to symptoms and prior events is seriously concerning understood.
Holysmoke your perspective has caused me some pause that’s for sure, its serious business any way it’s sliced. Your link to symptoms and prior events is seriously concerning understood.
Okay just went through my phone and found the colony I was talking about. With the plain bottom polyps that are notorious for palytoxin. Also pictured on the rack is the other grandi I was referring to. These are fairly recent pictures and the Sunkist mama split a bunch and I ripped a decemt size one right in half. I tried to peel it off gently but it didn't work out.
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