Peroxide only reef ?

[vingallo]

Crazy idea inspired by some videos I have seen of one person running ozone only filtration successfully.

The idea:
-90 Gallon corner tank mixed reef
-Softy/LPS dominated w/ few fish
-1 pound per gallon LR, 4 inch sand bed,
-lots of Flow,
-Triton system dosing.
-Zero Sump, Zero mechanical filtration, Zero Skimmer,
-Weekly water changes from start tapering back over first 2 years as tank matures with goal to eventually get to Zero water changes.
-Hydrogen Peroxide dosing 2ml per 10 Gallons or 18ml daily

The idea is to achieve a truly ultra low maintenance system.

I know this very outside of the norm, but it is something I have been considering for a while now and would love to have some input from experienced reefers, folks who have achieved ultra low maintenance or who have experience with peroxide/ozone.

Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Uncle99]

Why so much sand?
Isn’t that going just to trap detritus?
1” should be fine…

 

[brandon429]

if you want to do it I think it's helpful to marine science to see it. to be able to track it's effects if any, / valuable to know. peroxide is used for lots of things in reefing. it's fun to make predictions in reef tanks about what they do under peroxide dosing and see if it becomes true. if you inject a small amount of peroxide the system will tolerate it and perhaps lysmata shrimp might not but filter bacteria are nowhere near harmed, they're boosted in fact as an irony. aerobes don't mind if you're constantly boosting o2 at or above sat levels.

try to run it as a dry rock setup, select for the invasion.

replicate what the masses do

see if constant peroxide application leads to uglies avoidance. heck if you found that by an easy sustained microdose setup I'd want to know more. peroxide is really useful in reefing, fact.

 

[Miami Reef]

Ozone and hydrogen peroxide are 2 completely different oxidizers. You can’t extrapolate someone using ozone successfully and assume you’ll have the same success with hydrogen peroxide.

They have VERY different effects on water chemistry. One small example: ozone raises ORP; peroxide lowers it. That’s just one example.

 

[brandon429]

I wonder if the system will habituate to the dose, and proceed on a normal course despite the dosing. if the system can have the benefit of decreased uglies/invasions that's a sellable benefit. most reef tank setups run pretty clean water so it'll be tough to judge benefits of peroxide dosing on things other than invasion frequency/type vs norm and fish disease incidence relative to qt/fallow controls in place.

 

[vingallo]

Ozone and hydrogen peroxide are 2 completely different oxidizers. You can’t extrapolate someone using ozone successfully and assume you’ll have the same success with hydrogen peroxide.

They have VERY different effects on water chemistry. One small example: ozone raises ORP; peroxide lowers it. That’s just one example.

Peroxide lower ORP ?
Wait, what ?
That is unexpected will read up on that.

Wastewater blog says exact opposite, that there is a positive correlation.

 

[vingallo]

I wonder if the system will habituate to the dose, and proceed on a normal course despite the dosing. if the system can have the benefit of decreased uglies/invasions that's a sellable benefit. most reef tank setups run pretty clean water so it'll be tough to judge benefits of peroxide dosing on things other than invasion frequency/type vs norm and fish disease incidence relative to qt/fallow controls in place.

If it can run with peroxide as a chemical filtrate, with nothing else, I would consider it an ultra low maintenance setup. Exactly what I want. I can only speculate on long term (5+ years) results as I do not think anyone has ever done this...but if they have I would love to hear from them !

 

[vingallo]

Why so much sand?
Isn’t that going just to trap detritus?
1” should be fine…

The deep sand bed and its inhabitants should sort that out, at least that was my thought. I am going to take my time on this 2+ years to get to maturity and moderate stock levels. By that time the sand bed should be "mature". Why 1" rather than 4" to get that result ?

 

[vingallo]

if you want to do it I think it's helpful to marine science to see it. to be able to track it's effects if any, / valuable to know. peroxide is used for lots of things in reefing. it's fun to make predictions in reef tanks about what they do under peroxide dosing and see if it becomes true. if you inject a small amount of peroxide the system will tolerate it and perhaps lysmata shrimp might not but filter bacteria are nowhere near harmed, they're boosted in fact as an irony. aerobes don't mind if you're constantly boosting o2 at or above sat levels.

try to run it as a dry rock setup, select for the invasion.

replicate what the masses do

see if constant peroxide application leads to uglies avoidance. heck if you found that by an easy sustained microdose setup I'd want to know more. peroxide is really useful in reefing, fact.

dying to hear from anyone who has tried it, not sure if anyone really has either peroxide or ozone, apart from that one youtuber which I have mentioned who has successfully accomplished this with ozone only.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Many of us use ozone and none of us that I am aware of think it the only method needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Peroxide lower ORP ?
Wait, what ?
That is unexpected will read up on that.

Wastewater blog says exact opposite, that there is a positive correlation.

Yes, it does. It is both an oxidizer and a reducer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What do you believe the ozone and/or peroxide actually accomplish in this setup?

Where will accumulating nutrients such as phosphate go? Neither does anything to phosphate.

 

[Spare time]

If all you want is an ultra low maintenance reef, an auto doser, auto top off, and refugium is all you need (plus carbon).

 

[vingallo]

What do you believe the ozone and/or peroxide actually accomplish in this setup?

Where will accumulating nutrients such as phosphate go? Neither does anything to phosphate.

I assume that organic waste compounds will be broken down as ox occurs.
Why is phosphate unaffected by ozone or peroxide, you reckon equilibrium cannot be reached by the organisms that consume it in the tank ?
I am uncertain that phosphate is a good example of your point as you would not know if there is too much or too little phosphates in any tank, do you assume it just accumulates over long time periods ?

Expectation from Ozone or Peroxide = decomposition of "pollutants" by free oxygen radicals, its intended purpose is true chemical filtration eliminating a need for a skimmer, sump, socks...


I am open to being wrong, please help me better understand the fault in my logic or understanding.

 

[vingallo]

If all you want is an ultra low maintenance reef, an auto doser, auto top off, and refugium is all you need (plus carbon).

That is really not bad advice However in my experience, I would need either a very large fuge or an export vessel that grows VERY rapidly which = a lot of trimming = maintenance. I really believe that most fuges are either too much work, if they grow at the right pace, or are undersized as they sit in small portions of sumps beneath a tank. Otherwise you are not wrong and it is good advice to get to "low-er" maintenance.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I assume that organic waste compounds will be broken down as ox occurs.

Broken down into what?

 

[vingallo]

Broken down into what?

oxidized.
decomposition of "pollutants" by free oxygen radicals
Is that not what Peroxide or Ozone does in the water column by definition?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

oxidized.
decomposition of "pollutants" by free oxygen radicals
Is that not what Peroxide or Ozone does in the water column by definition?

But what happens to the "decomposed pollutants"? Don't they need to be consumed or removed manually?

 

[vingallo]

But what happens to the "decomposed pollutants"? Don't they need to be consumed or removed manually?

Are you asking me to describe the process of oxidation when ozone or peroxide are applied to a water column ?
That information is available online.
Is there something I am missing from your line of questioning, please help me better understand your point I am very curious and your insights may really enrich this conversation.

Awaiting your response.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Never mind