Perry's 90 Gallon SCA Acro Upgrade

JCOLE · May 17, 2021

Good morning Perry! I can't rememebr if you are running a skimmer. If so, I would try shutting it down for a week or so while testing to see if your nutrients level out. I had to shut my completely down and I only run it before water changes and if I start to see a foam layer in my sump.

My skimmer is just too effective at removing nutrients to be running 24/7. Would be worth a shot to turn it off for a week or two to see.

Perry · May 17, 2021

JCOLE said:
Good morning Perry! I can't rememebr if you are running a skimmer. If so, I would try shutting it down for a week or so while testing to see if your nutrients level out. I had to shut my completely down and I only run it before water changes and if I start to see a foam layer in my sump.

My skimmer is just too effective at removing nutrients to be running 24/7. Would be worth a shot to turn it off for a week or two to see.

Hey Josh, I am going to see what my P04 is tomorrow, and see. I have actually thought of controlling the skimmer, only drawback is loss of C02 scrubber, but I am now using kalkwasser in top off. This may be a good solution, that or putting it on a timer. I am seeing alk consumption, and a fair amount, so I will continue to hand dose and test both P04 and Alk. I have replacement heads on the way for my doser, and already have a nice acrylic 3 chamber dosing reservoir ready to go as well. I will probably just go ahead and automate the big 3.
As far as P04, really stumped, as day before I dosed 20ml, and still bottmed out after 24 hours, so I bumped to 30ml, 24 hours later,.32. I am wondering if my system is now saturated? Could be, but not really wanting to be that high, so no dose today, and I will report back on this thread.
I

Perry · May 17, 2021

Alright, so N03 confirmed low, at >2.5ppm, so I went ahead and dosed 5ml, just as a precaution. I went ahead and installed my doser, looks pretty good, at least I think so. I went ahead and fabricated a 1 gallon container to begin dosing at full saturation kalkwasser. Started with 200ml per 24 hours, dosing every hour. I will test to see impact on kh in the am. I estimate about .75 gallon per day in evaporation, so this is a comfortable dose. I am not wanting to use kalkwasser in top off, just in case, I feel this is a possible disaster, if the ato fails.
As far as nutrients, once I get desired levels, I may just run no skimmer until I clear dinos out. I am also considering cutting white lights and running blue led only. My issue is that I know my ionic balance will shift, so it's kinda tricky. Probably addressing the dinos is more important right now, can dial in at a later date. Testing every morning anyway, so I can make the adjustments. Life on the reef isn't always easy, or fun, or relaxing, lol

Perry · May 17, 2021

Under the hood shot, forgive my wires, lol.

drawman · May 17, 2021

Perry said:
Alright, so N03 confirmed low, at >2.5ppm, so I went ahead and dosed 5ml, just as a precaution. I went ahead and installed my doser, looks pretty good, at least I think so. I went ahead and fabricated a 1 gallon container to begin dosing at full saturation kalkwasser. Started with 200ml per 24 hours, dosing every hour. I will test to see impact on kh in the am. I estimate about .75 gallon per day in evaporation, so this is a comfortable dose. I am not wanting to use kalkwasser in top off, just in case, I feel this is a possible disaster, if the ato fails.
As far as nutrients, once I get desired levels, I may just run no skimmer until I clear dinos out. I am also considering cutting white lights and running blue led only. My issue is that I know my ionic balance will shift, so it's kinda tricky. Probably addressing the dinos is more important right now, can dial in at a later date. Testing every morning anyway, so I can make the adjustments. Life on the reef isn't always easy, or fun, or relaxing, lol

Perry I've been thinking of dosing kalk via a dosing pump for a long time as well. You'll have to let me know if the pH effect lasts or how long dosing every hr.

Perry · May 18, 2021

drawman said:
Perry I've been thinking of dosing kalk via a dosing pump for a long time as well. You'll have to let me know if the pH effect lasts or how long dosing every hr.

Tim, I've got some useful data for you. This morning I tested at 7.6 DKH. Yesterday's dose was 30 mliters of Calcium and alkalinity buffer. That said, I also started dripping 250ml of fully saturated kalkwasser as well. So, I believe that I will not buffer today, see how much alk falls, then bump my dosage of kalkwasser to match depletion. I imagine that as long as I don't dose, more than I evaporate fresh water from the system, I should be ok. I am thinking that if my hunch, and math is correct, that a bump to 350ml per day will probably match the system for now. A few minor bumps with buffer here and there to be expected.
Also, this morning I tested .12 for P04, so that was .20 absorbed in the system in 24 hours. I decided to dose 5ml x2 today and test tomorrow, getting closer to understanding daily consumption.

Perry · May 19, 2021

For those following along, I am still testing the following every morning, N03, P04, and Alk. I do this to get a full 24 hour measurement, this way I can get some accurate data.
Last night, I was darn tired of looking at dinos, they have been increasingly building, and intervention warranted. I decided to run a cycle of Boyd's Chemi Clean for cyano. Ok, I know I have dinos, but something between the 48 hour cycle of the treatment, no skimmer, just an air stone, or gac, the system is running bare-bones. I also cut all but blue led bars for the next few days. Thursday I will do a 20% water change, reintroduce passive gac, then Friday fire up 2 of the t5's, and Saturday return to full spectrum. During this time, I have suspended kalkwasser, will return on Saturday at lower dosage, then slowly ramp. Everyday the testing will determine how much to put back in the system.
Today alk was 7.6dkh, N03- 2.5-5ppm, and P04- .20, so no alk buffer, no P04 dose, and 5ml of Nitro/N03 dose. Once I teturn to full spectrum and the treatment is over, I will likely disable the skimmer, allowing natural rise in both P04 and N03, and will be using kalkwasser to match mineral depletion. Kind of feels weird at the idea of not using a skimmer, but with fish feedings, abd no skimming, it sort of makes sense. I can attest to the fact that running elavated nutrients is probably a safer path, at least until the tank settles in. I have tons of life, worms, pods, dusters, sponges, micro stars, as well as a solid CUC. So far my corals are not too upset, but anticipate some response as ph is low, and loss of t5 lighting for a few days.
This morning dinos have decreased, and will be happy to see them break. Rock looks good, and just some lingering in the sand. The key will be stabilizing and holding 5-10ppm on N03 and .1-.15 on P04. This will ultimately defeat dinos, just want to kick start the process. I have already defeated dinos this way in 2 different systems, and each time it was bottoming out nutrients. Both times, and now a 3rd, of Life Bio Fil from AF being way too effective. Great product, in my cases, wrong application, lol. We live and learn

JCOLE · May 19, 2021

Hey Perry! I don't know if I missed it but have you identified the type of Dino's with a microscope? When I went through dino's a year ago I had ostreopsis and it was due to adding two new sterile tanks onto the system. I did a couple things and the dino's went away. Maybe thie might work foryou if haven't tried it yet.

1. Dosed nutrients like yourself. I also stopped all aminos and vitamins as it feeds dino's.

2. I cut up some heavy duty 5 micron filter floss into rectangles big enough to cover the teeth of my overflows. I put them over the teeth and the water force kept then in place or you can use zipties. I then blasted the rocks with a long coral feeder I had or used a baster. Turn off all powerheads except for your return pump. This allowed the dino's to float in the water column and stick to the floss. I did this for 30 minutes to an hour every evening and once done then I threw away the floss daily. I did this for a week.

3. I hooked up a 55w Jebao UV sterilizer and ran nightly. Haven't stopped it since.

Both times I had dino's they cleared up within 2 weeks. Knowing the type though is important. Ostreopsis goes into the water column at night so a UV is great at knocking it back.

ScottB · May 19, 2021

Perry said:
Well, back to the P04 saga, lol. So after a 30 ml dose yesterday, I tested at .32, so no dose today, will measure tomorrow. Alk was 6.2 dkh. So it appears that 25ml is likely the sweet spot dose, but I need to get it up just a hair, so I will continue 30ml, to get a daily rise by .1 or .2, until I am up around 7.5dkh. I am getting some useful info from alk at least, P04 is confusing me

Noisy PO4 readings are a thing. My son and I went through them for eons until we settled on a few things:
a) absolutely spotless cuvettes. Eyeglass towels to wipe. Replace if scratched. Don't scratch them!
b) Clean nitrile gloves.
c) Cuvettes stored filled with RO.

Once we agreed (during a dino battle) our numbers would nearly match.

Yes, once the aragonite is saturated you will be able to drop back to weekly testing and infrequent dosing. Not before.

JCOLE said:
Hey Perry! I don't know if I missed it but have you identified the type of Dino's with a microscope? When I went through dino's a year ago I had ostreopsis and it was due to adding two new sterile tanks onto the system. I did a couple things and the dino's went away. Maybe thie might work foryou if haven't tried it yet.

1. Dosed nutrients like yourself. I also stopped all aminos and vitamins as it feeds dino's.

2. I cut up some heavy duty 5 micron filter floss into rectangles big enough to cover the teeth of my overflows. I put them over the teeth and the water force kept then in place or you can use zipties. I then blasted the rocks with a long coral feeder I had or used a baster. Turn off all powerheads except for your return pump. This allowed the dino's to float in the water column and stick to the floss. I did this for 30 minutes to an hour every evening and once done then I threw away the floss daily. I did this for a week.

3. I hooked up a 55w Jebao UV sterilizer and ran nightly. Haven't stopped it since.

Both times I had dino's they cleared up within 2 weeks. Knowing the type though is important. Ostreopsis goes into the water column at night so a UV is great at knocking it back.

Unless you are certain these are the same type of dinos faced before, it is good process to get an ID. Using your phone camera (zoomed, video) on a scope like this we can get you a fairly confident ID and (species dependent) treatment regimen. Here is an OK scope that me and my son use frequently.

Lastly, as long as I kept some available nutrient the dinos were not an SPS problem. I lost some stuff early when facing 0/0 but having anything measurable was enough. Of course other parameters need to be normally managed but nothing exceptional.

Perry · May 20, 2021

@JCOLE and @ScottB
Thank you both for taking the time to reply back, your experience and knowledge is tremendous! I have used this same method, of treating cyano, for dinos, and other than 48 hour blackout, I am running blues. This morning, they are 50% declined from previos day. Corals are little effected, they don't seem to mind. Josh brought up a great point of disabling the skimmer, and after 2 days being off, N03 still holding 2.5 on Salifert. P04, with only 5ml dose yesterday, dropped to .02, yeah, that quickly! So, I am pretty certain that after days, and days of testing, that I am pretty confident that 15ml is my sweet spot dose. Of course I will report back tomorrow. Alk, it didn't move at all yesterday, which makes complete sense, due to running blues only. I hear you about testing tubes Scott, I am going to order a few more. I usually rinse mine in tank water, then fill, and wipe with paper towel each time the tube is placed in testing vessel, at least for the Hanna meter. I also rinse the testing tube for salifer N03 as well, same way. Yours seems more sterile and likely a more accurate test. Good news is that I am at least consistent, lol.
In the end, I am seeing more importance in testing, more than ever in my 16+ years at SPS. I love how humbling this hobby is, and learning is key, more so than experiences gained. Keeping an open mind may have just saved me from a possible disaster! And to think I was trying to use bio-media and carbon/bacteria dosing to limit nutrients, WOW, glad I caught this when I did

Thanks again you guys, much appreciated!

Perry · May 21, 2021

Morning update:
This morning, N03 5ppm Salifert. P04 .30 Hanna. Alk 7.5dkh Lamotte.
Yesterday finished my 48 hour cycle of Boyd's Chemi Clean cyano treatment. 1 did a 15 gallon water change, siphoned out remaining dinos from the sand, turned up the pumps, and added fresh saltwater. I also put new gac in a mesh bag. This morning, I didn't spot dinos, I did see dead dinos release after brushing the glass, which was really hazy, despite running only blues last 48 hours. Today I will put 2 blue+ t5's back on normal cycle, and Saturday return to full spectrum.
As I have stated above, looks like my treatment was effective again. I believe the treatment resets bacteria levels, possibly an underlying issue for dinos to set in, that and being nutrient poor, which I am paying close attention to.
I will run the airstone for today, then back to normal schedule on Saturday, but.... I will not be skimming until the system requires it. Adding stuff, just to skim off, is kinda pointless. I will continue my testing each morning, I have a feeling this will change my dosing of nutrients, so still have work ahead. Corals all look good!
Cheers

Perry · May 22, 2021

Weird...
Yesterday. 30 on P04, and today .26 without dosing Phosphorus... hmmm...
Could my sandbed be saturated? Not sure, but I will obviously not dose today, and repeat tomorrow. Today I return to full spectrum. Hopefully I will see some movement on alk and P04, really not wanting to stay this high on P04, 0.04-0.08 would be my goal.
All in all, I am a very happy reefer, and dinos are gone! I know science and technology has identified several species of dinos, not sure what I had this time or in the past, but my method worked. Now, just have to find a swest spot and go from there. I am going to receive my artfully acrylic clearview Tsunami lid today. So that means more fish

That should solve all of these nutrient issues, that and up my frozen feelings to 2x per day.

ScottB · May 22, 2021

Perry said:
Weird...
Yesterday. 30 on P04, and today .26 without dosing Phosphorus... hmmm...
Could my sandbed be saturated? Not sure, but I will obviously not dose today, and repeat tomorrow. Today I return to full spectrum. Hopefully I will see some movement on alk and P04, really not wanting to stay this high on P04, 0.04-0.08 would be my goal.
All in all, I am a very happy reefer, and dinos are gone! I know science and technology has identified several species of dinos, not sure what I had this time or in the past, but my method worked. Now, just have to find a swest spot and go from there. I am going to receive my artfully acrylic clearview Tsunami lid today. So that means more fish That should solve all of these nutrient issues, that and up my frozen feelings to 2x per day.

More fish as always my favorite long term solution for dinos.

Perry · May 23, 2021

So this happened yesterday!

And as far as P04 goes. .25 today, .01 consumption over 24 hours. Skimmer back on for now, trying to get a lower value. I will be happy at .08-.12ppm for the time being, definitely seeing things improving. My clove polyps retracted during the dinos, and prior and during treatment, today nearly 100% open, sps act like business as usual

Now, alk shifted over 24 hours, from 7.6dkh, down to 7.39dkh this am, so kalkwasser back online, lowering dosage to 100ml fully saturated, and will bump until the day I match evaporation, then will automate 2 part, this will take a long time. That said, I am 100% going to drive ph, kalkwasser and C02 scrubber should eventually do the trick. If not, I will drill and draw fresh air into the system, I may just do it anyway.
Cheers

ScottB · May 23, 2021

Perry said:
So this happened yesterday!

And as far as P04 goes. .25 today, .01 consumption over 24 hours. Skimmer back on for now, trying to get a lower value. I will be happy at .08-.12ppm for the time being, definitely seeing things improving. My clove polyps retracted during the dinos, and prior and during treatment, today nearly 100% open, sps act like business as usual
Now, alk shifted over 24 hours, from 7.6dkh, down to 7.39dkh this am, so kalkwasser back online, lowering dosage to 100ml fully saturated, and will bump until the day I match evaporation, then will automate 2 part, this will take a long time. That said, I am 100% going to drive ph, kalkwasser and C02 scrubber should eventually do the trick. If not, I will drill and draw fresh air into the system, I may just do it anyway.
Cheers

Nice lid!

I have been tinkering around lately between my calcium reactor, ESV 2-Part, and kalk stirrer. With my CaRx offline temporarily, I am getting some strange interaction between KALK dosing and ESV calcium that is driving my skimmer nuts on occasion. Bubbles on the floor. Ugh.

Perry · May 23, 2021

ScottB said:
Nice lid!

I have been tinkering around lately between my calcium reactor, ESV 2-Part, and kalk stirrer. With my CaRx offline temporarily, I am getting some strange interaction between KALK dosing and ESV calcium that is driving my skimmer nuts on occasion. Bubbles on the floor. Ugh.

Oh wow, that's not good, I don't like bubbles on the floor, but skimmers do weird things sometimes. Mine is nearly dialed back in, to where it was, prior to treatment. Of course, the Boyd's treatment makes skimmer wompy for a spell. I feel I am stable on P04 and N03, and look to keep them a bit higher than I usually, or historically do. I think I am going to add a few chromis, sunburst anthias, and CBB soon. Despite having 11 fish, I feel that the tank looks sort of static, needs more energy/movement. Now, as far as ph goes, dosing kalkwasser is definitely going to help with ph, maybe way down the road, when my bioload is a lot heavier, I will run chaeto to assist as well. My next move is looking at drilling underneath the window frame behind the tank, and running airline to my C02 scrubber, where I will replace media with filter mesh and carbon. Honestly, this will be so easy, not sure why I am slacking, lol.

Perry · May 23, 2021

Hi all,
Today I went ahead and converted my C02 scrubber into a fresh air intake filter. Drilling was easy, and 15 minutes later, all set up. I imagine it will take time to see impact on ph, but hopefully, slowly, over time, I get a rise.

drawman · May 23, 2021

Perry said:
Oh wow, that's not good, I don't like bubbles on the floor, but skimmers do weird things sometimes. Mine is nearly dialed back in, to where it was, prior to treatment. Of course, the Boyd's treatment makes skimmer wompy for a spell. I feel I am stable on P04 and N03, and look to keep them a bit higher than I usually, or historically do. I think I am going to add a few chromis, sunburst anthias, and CBB soon. Despite having 11 fish, I feel that the tank looks sort of static, needs more energy/movement. Now, as far as ph goes, dosing kalkwasser is definitely going to help with ph, maybe way down the road, when my bioload is a lot heavier, I will run chaeto to assist as well. My next move is looking at drilling underneath the window frame behind the tank, and running airline to my C02 scrubber, where I will replace media with filter mesh and carbon. Honestly, this will be so easy, not sure why I am slacking, lol.

Even though my tank is up and running I still may be living vicariously through you Perry. I love sunburst anthias I would say they're my favorite fish.

Also still slacking on getting a doser running for kalk but my tank is running 8.0-8.3 so I'm not stressing it too hard atm. Still can't hurt to tweak things though

Perry · May 25, 2021

drawman said:
Even though my tank is up and running I still may be living vicariously through you Perry. I love sunburst anthias I would say they're my favorite fish.

Also still slacking on getting a doser running for kalk but my tank is running 8.0-8.3 so I'm not stressing it too hard atm. Still can't hurt to tweak things though

Hey Tim,
Thanks my friend, trying to get the biome settled, but soon more fish! Feeling good about nutrient stability, so now onto the ph thing. Quite frankly, I haven't noticed anything by drawing fresh air, but maybe in time. I have placed plants nearby the outside reactor to help with C02/02 exchange. Today I upped kalkwasser by 40ml, and will be monitoring daily.
***another major move in lighting. Yesterday I replaced a C+ bulb with a 6500k Hamilton bulb. Yes this is yellow in visual color, and puts much more white light on the reef. Hopefully get growth kicking into gear

@Scott B.
Tested today at .16 for P04, yesterday's test was .18, so thinking that I am nearing balance/absorption. N03 still between 5-10ppm on Salifert. Great news in getting stable based on the in/out ratio of nutrients.
@JCOLE
Dinos are visually gone

It appears that bottomed out nutrients, from likely excessive (-) bacteria counts, that likely the cyano treatment re-balnced bacteria. That said, going to likely run the reef basic, keeping nutrients in good/ slightly higher range than previous years of running sps reefs. The tank is starting to settle in, on to the good part of keeping sps

Cheers

JCOLE · May 25, 2021

Perry said:
Hey Tim,
Thanks my friend, trying to get the biome settled, but soon more fish! Feeling good about nutrient stability, so now onto the ph thing. Quite frankly, I haven't noticed anything by drawing fresh air, but maybe in time. I have placed plants nearby the outside reactor to help with C02/02 exchange. Today I upped kalkwasser by 40ml, and will be monitoring daily.
***another major move in lighting. Yesterday I replaced a C+ bulb with a 6500k Hamilton bulb. Yes this is yellow in visual color, and puts much more white light on the reef. Hopefully get growth kicking into gear
@Scott B.
Tested today at .16 for P04, yesterday's test was .18, so thinking that I am nearing balance/absorption. N03 still between 5-10ppm on Salifert. Great news in getting stable based on the in/out ratio of nutrients.
@JCOLE
Dinos are visually gone It appears that bottomed out nutrients, from likely excessive (-) bacteria counts, that likely the cyano treatment re-balnced bacteria. That said, going to likely run the reef basic, keeping nutrients in good/ slightly higher range than previous years of running sps reefs. The tank is starting to settle in, on to the good part of keeping sps
Cheers