Phosphates

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
80 gallon reef four months old Having trouble keeping nitrates and phosphates at the correct levels. Really trying to keep them from 0 over the past 2 days I have dosed 27 mL of NeoPhos. Or should I sayThat after dosing 17 mL I raised Phosphates up to .07 ppm when I measured at 3 PM By 10 o'clock They were back to zero again. I dosed 10 mL Before I went to bed Checked this morning 0
Should I wait the 24hrs and test tonite before I dose again? I also don't want to overdose

Is4LFWAPSKyUwfHQkxm27Q.jpg +qJA7RcLSy6Wr9dCEwdU4g.jpg x6xFI8H0Q0K9y5Lv41hoHA.jpg Dr9xFrVaT+i0i9BKEFBBmA.jpg
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
When my PO4 bottomed (dinos) it took nearly a liter of solution to saturate the rock/sand (aragonite) before it started leaching back into the water. Once the rock was saturated, my dosing levels required to stay measurable were very little. Once I had enough fish poop going I did not need to dose at all.
 
OP
OP
Spdjnky

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thx is there a specific time period you need to wait before checking again?
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thx is there a specific time period you need to wait before checking again?

I guess I should back up a little bit. At four months, I wouldn't typically recommend dosing nutrients. There is just so much change going on in our young biomes. It is kinda like dosing HGH to a young person. Unless there is a real problem you are trying to correct, just let it mature naturally. Add a few more fish; feed a tad more frequently. That sort of change. So that is my only caveat.

Back to your question though. You could increase the frequency of dosing and testing. PO4 binds pretty fast IME.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Spdjnky

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thx Scott and I do understand you as far as the age of my Reef. I know I have to be carefull and test more luckily I am retired so I have time. I was just not sure how long after dosing should I be able to test and get the right reading meaning I test 1-2 hours after dosing and say I get .05/.07 ppm PO4 witch is right about where I want to be for SPS. Then I test 24hrs and I'm like at .2 ppm or something higher just want to get it stable.
Hopefully as it matures I won't have this problem.
 

Kfactor

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
1,151
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have the same problem my p04 is always zero and scared to does a lot but it seems no matter what I can’t get them up and think my corals are stressing from it
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Once the rock & substrate gets saturated with PO4 it will be much easier to keep it available and more stable. The more rock you have, the more storage needs to be filled.

After dumping a bottle of Flourish in, I went with this:


I had about 100lbs of depleted rock in 300 gallons.
 

YankeeTankee

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
481
Reaction score
1,046
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can you scale back your filtration? Dosing for now works but maybe going forward remove socks, dont know your setup.
 
OP
OP
Spdjnky

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can you scale back your filtration? Dosing for now works but maybe going forward remove socks, dont know your setup.
Other pics are at the beginning of the post. I'm running the Triton Method Pics show my refugium that is starting to grow after modifing the sump.
My PO4 is still "0" and I have dosed 62ml of NeoPhos sense Tuesday
I haven't waited 24 hrs between dosing and checking and I don't want a big suprise when I check it or does it matter? Is my system carbon-limited?

x6xFI8H0Q0K9y5Lv41hoHA.jpg sPLHXveARs+GI0HbwlS6JQ.jpg
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Fire? Maybe you are a chemophobe. lol

I really see no reason to be afraid of or discourage dosing when nutrients are too low. It gives you strong control and you can stop on a dime if you want.

Feeding more is also fine when you want to raise both N and P. Dosing gives the option to dose only one, or to raise them in any ratio that you want.
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Other pics are at the beginning of the post. I'm running the Triton Method Pics show my refugium that is starting to grow after modifing the sump.
My PO4 is still "0" and I have dosed 62ml of NeoPhos sense Tuesday
I haven't waited 24 hrs between dosing and checking and I don't want a big suprise when I check it or does it matter? Is my system carbon-limited?

x6xFI8H0Q0K9y5Lv41hoHA.jpg sPLHXveARs+GI0HbwlS6JQ.jpg
How many pounds of rock do you have in the system?
 
OP
OP
Spdjnky

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Fire? Maybe you are a chemophobe. lol

I really see no reason to be afraid of or discourage dosing when nutrients are too low. It gives you strong control and you can stop on a dime if you want.

Feeding more is also fine when you want to raise both N and P. Dosing gives the option to dose only one, or to raise them in any ratio that you want.
Thx Randy what about this statement and the 24hr period from Brightwell
Allow 24-hours to elapse; re-test nitrate and phosphate concentrations. If concentrations remain unchanged, then the system is likely carbon-limited. Dose with REEF BIOFUEL at the rate of 1-ml per 25 US-gallons and allow 24-hours to elapse, then re-test phosphate and nitrate concentrations. Continue daily dosing with REEF BIOFUEL until phosphate or nitrate concentrations begin to decrease, indicating that the rate of carbon input to the system
matches the rate of phosphorus- or nitrogen-input, respectively.
 

schuby

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
1,011
Reaction score
838
Location
Orange County, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can you give us a list of what and how much you put in each day? (fish food, coral food, dosing: basically anything you add to your tank)

What do you use to export nutrients? (macro-algae, skimmer, ATS, bio-balls, any reactors,...)

I'm interested to see if maybe you are simply removing more than you put in, causing your numbers to hit zero. Just a note, if you have minimal livestock such as fish and corals, then water-changes may be all that is required.

I think you mentioned the Triton Method, but I'm not sure that is recommended for a new tank. My understanding (I sized and configured my tank to run Triton Method, but haven't yet) is that it is for maintaining a stable, more mature tank rather than for breaking in a new tank (that is the definition of unstable and immature).
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thx Randy what about this statement and the 24hr period from Brightwell
Allow 24-hours to elapse; re-test nitrate and phosphate concentrations. If concentrations remain unchanged, then the system is likely carbon-limited. Dose with REEF BIOFUEL at the rate of 1-ml per 25 US-gallons and allow 24-hours to elapse, then re-test phosphate and nitrate concentrations. Continue daily dosing with REEF BIOFUEL until phosphate or nitrate concentrations begin to decrease, indicating that the rate of carbon input to the system
matches the rate of phosphorus- or nitrogen-input, respectively.

That's not to "allow it to work", that is to decide the next day how much to dose. I agree that retesting in 24 is a fine plan,and it may be zero again, so dose again, maybe dose more.
 
OP
OP
Spdjnky

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That's not to "allow it to work", that is to decide the next day how much to dose. I agree that retesting in 24 is a fine plan,and it may be zero again, so dose again, maybe dose more.
Is that the way it works that it needs to saturate the rocks and substrate first before it will start to level off and then I will be able to keep it stable?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Is that the way it works that it needs to saturate the rocks and substrate first before it will start to level off and then I will be able to keep it stable?

Sort of. The amount bound to rock and sand at equilibrium depends on the concentration in the water. Far more binds at 0.1 ppm than at 0.05 ppm, for example.

So any time you try to raise it, some fraction will bind and some remain free.

Eventually, if you keep dosing enough, you will get to the point where the amount on the rock and sand is equivalent to, say, 0.03 ppm in the water, and at that point, keeping it at 0.03 ppm takes less.
 
OP
OP
Spdjnky

Spdjnky

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
546
Reaction score
161
Location
Schenectady
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thx and then when it gets there and with the new fish added and corals that are added and with more feeding as needed I probably won't have to dose like I am now right?
When I am trying to get my PO4 to .05 to .07 ppm I have not been running Carbon in a reactor or does it make a difference?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,553
Reaction score
62,861
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thx and then when it gets there and with the new fish added and corals that are added and with more feeding as needed I probably won't have to dose like I am now right?
When I am trying to get my PO4 to .05 to .07 ppm I have not been running Carbon in a reactor or does it make a difference?

Once you start feeding more, it may become the opposite problem. lol
 
Back
Top