Phytoplankton dosing: how long?

[testuser]

I started dosing phytoplankton after I got a dino bloom along with silica to start a diatom bloom. I was hoping for some biodiversity, and I think I am there. However, I think that I am getting a lot more "sludge" on GHA that's already existent as well as on the rockwork. Looking under a microscope, I see large patches of phytoplankton. I think that it's pretty well established, and was curious what the group's cadence is here for that. Do you dose daily indefinitely, or do you dose for a month once a quarter? Just trying to get a feel for how often after the first month. I have a small, 4.8g tank, so everything is pretty noticeable at a quick rate. I attached a picture of the sort of creatures living in this gunk, which appears to be mostly diatoms and some phytoplankton in a community.

 

[Mechano]

Post this on “Mack’s dinoflagellate support group “ on Facebook. Someone there will identify it.

But regarding dosing phyto, I dose 500ml per day in my system as it’s a good source of food for corals, and microfauna alike.
If u had Dino’s, I would keep up with dosing as I really can’t see any bad side effect (unless your water is turning green)

 

[testuser]

Post this on “Mack’s dinoflagellate support group “ on Facebook. Someone there will identify it.

But regarding dosing phyto, I dose 500ml per day in my system as it’s a good source of food for corals, and microfauna alike.
If u had Dino’s, I would keep up with dosing as I really can’t see any bad side effect (unless your water is turning green)

It just seemed like the matted mess I was seeing on the rockwork was the phytoplankton forming colonies, per the attached image in the original post (that would be the long strands with all of the greenish dots).

Do you have a large tank? How long have you been continuously dosing phytoplankton?

 

[Mechano]

It just seemed like the matted mess I was seeing on the rockwork was the phytoplankton forming colonies, per the attached image in the original post (that would be the long strands with all of the greenish dots).

Do you have a large tank? How long have you been continuously dosing phytoplankton?

Been dosing since I started system and it’s a 235g system.

What does it look like on the rockwork?

 

[testuser]

Been dosing since I started system and it’s a 235g system.

What does it look like on the rockwork?

A brownish sludge, what I was describing in my original post. The picture I took with the microscope largely looks to be diatoms and phytoplankton for the most part.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

maybe you don't have enough flow in the tank, if phyto is forming colonies and sludge is forming?

 

[george9]

Where are you at with the dino situation? I would not discontinue phyto dosing until dinos are WELL behind you in the rear-view mirror (like months after your tank has been eradicated of them). That being said, I've dosed phyto in all of my tanks forever and have never seen sludge developing like you're describing. Do you have any non-microscope pics?

This could just be an inflection point in the dino battle where dino-dominance wanes and GHA/diatom dominance is on the upswing. In this phase, your tank will get uglier before it gets better. This is all expected and should happen when you are dosing silicates and raising nutrients (I assume you are ) to outcompete dinos.

 

[testuser]

Where are you at with the dino situation? I would not discontinue phyto dosing until dinos are WELL behind you in the rear-view mirror (like months after your tank has been eradicated of them). That being said, I've dosed phyto in all of my tanks forever and have never seen sludge developing like you're describing. Do you have any non-microscope pics?

This could just be an inflection point in the dino battle where dino-dominance wanes and GHA/diatom dominance is on the upswing. In this phase, your tank will get uglier before it gets better. This is all expected and should happen when you are dosing silicates and raising nutrients (I assume you are ) to outcompete dinos.

Thanks for the confirmation! The picture attached in the first post shows what this sludge looks like. The brown on top of the sand also seems to be largely diatoms.

 

[doubleshot00]

I would continue the pyto for a few more months and maybe keep adding bacteria to. I recently stopped adding phyto to see if i see any difference in my tank and i dont. Ive been dosing for over a year. I only dosed 30-40ml every 3-4 days.

 

[george9]

Thanks for the confirmation! The picture attached in the first post shows what this sludge looks like. The brown on top of the sand also seems to be largely diatoms.

what does it look like to the naked eye out of curiosity?

 

[testuser]

what does it look like to the naked eye out of curiosity?

Sure, see a few pictures with the flow and lighting off, attached. I've sampled the sludge parts that attached to either the rockwork or the GHA, and both were predominantly diatoms and phytoplankton colonies (with some crazy looking worms as well).

 

[testuser]

what does it look like to the naked eye out of curiosity?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[george9]

Any thoughts would be appreciated

It's tough to say without knowing exactly where you are in your dino process (and what else you've tried to eradicate them) but here's my take from what you've said:

I'm admittedly not an expert on dino/diatom microscope identification but if you are confident what you are seeing are all diatoms and phyto - this is a good thing. I'm willing to bet the brown growth you're getting is a result of the silica dosing (since it's mainly diatom) and if you slowly scale back your silicate dosing, you should see those masses begin to retreat. It's important that you keep nutrients elevated (not too high, but definitely not zero) while you do this, because if your nutrients bottom out while you're reducing your diatom 'food', the dinos will come surging back.

If I were you and I was confident I wasn't seeing any dinos, I would slowly start to wean off silicate and observe the effects. Just be sure to watch PO4 and No3 like a hawk in the process. But do not stop dosing phyto in the process - this is going to be good food for all of the other species you want to outcompete the dinos now and forever. I dose phyto regularly to keep all of the tiny critters (pods, worms, feather dusters, sponges) happy which in turn ripples up the food chain.

This is a very slooow and gradual process

 

[testuser]

It's tough to say without knowing exactly where you are in your dino process (and what else you've tried to eradicate them) but here's my take from what you've said:

I'm admittedly not an expert on dino/diatom microscope identification but if you are confident what you are seeing are all diatoms and phyto - this is a good thing. I'm willing to bet the brown growth you're getting is a result of the silica dosing (since it's mainly diatom) and if you slowly scale back your silicite dosing, you should see those masses begin to retreat. It's important that you keep nutrients elevated (not too high, but definitely not zero) while you do this, because if your nutrients bottom out while you're reducing your diatom 'food', the dinos will come surging back.

If I were you and I was confident I wasn't seeing any dinos, I would slowly start to wean off silicate and observe the effects. Just be sure to watch PO4 and No3 like a hawk in the process. But do not stop dosing phyto in the process - this is going to be good food for all of the other species you want to outcompete the dinos now and forever. I dose phyto regularly to keep all of the tiny critters (pods, worms, feather dusters, sponges) happy which in turn ripples up the food chain.

This is a very slooow and gradual process

Very sage advice, thank you very much! Between your advice and that dinos Facebook group confirming that they are namely diatoms as well, this sounds like the perfect plan. I'll continue dosing phytoplankton and keep my automated dosing of PO4 and No3 and monitor to make sure that they are always elevated.

Separate note, but Algae Barn said that I could keep dosing phytoplankton past the expiration date so as long as there was no odor. They apparently last a pretty long time since it's been 2 weeks past the expiration. I'll periodically check them under a microscope though to make sure that at least some have movement like I saw before.

 

[george9]

Very sage advice, thank you very much! Between your advice and that dinos Facebook group confirming that they are namely diatoms as well, this sounds like the perfect plan. I'll continue dosing phytoplankton and keep my automated dosing of PO4 and No3 and monitor to make sure that they are always elevated.

Separate note, but Algae Barn said that I could keep dosing phytoplankton past the expiration date so as long as there was no odor. They apparently last a pretty long time since it's been 2 weeks past the expiration. I'll periodically check them under a microscope though to make sure that at least some have movement like I saw before.

That's exactly what I do, if it doesn't smell like absolute death and there is still phyto suspended in the solution (not all clumped at the bottom with clear water), it should be good to go! I've had bottles last over two months in the fridge as long as I shake them up once a day.

 

[testuser]

That's exactly what I do, if it doesn't smell like absolute death and there is still phyto suspended in the solution (not all clumped at the bottom with clear water), it should be good to go! I've had bottles last over two months in the fridge as long as I shake them up once a day.

I'm so thankful for hearing all of that! It's hard to find that sort of advice online. I never knew it would clump up and turn clear, nice! Yeah, I shake it up once every morning and dose 2ml since my tank is tiny. It is fun to look at them under the microscope, they sometimes spin like crazy in circles haha. But glad to hear that they can last that long, since they're kind of expensive, ha.

 

[george9]

I'm so thankful for hearing all of that! It's hard to find that sort of advice online. I never knew it would clump up and turn clear, nice! Yeah, I shake it up once every morning and dose 2ml since my tank is tiny. It is fun to look at them under the microscope, they sometimes spin like crazy in circles haha. But glad to hear that they can last that long, since they're kind of expensive, ha.

Yes I am so adamant about shaking the bottles of phyto every time I pop my head in the fridge during the day lol It really extends the life span to keep them suspended in the water.

They'll slowly settle on top of each other at the bottom of the bottle over time. If you don't shake it up for a while you'll open the fridge and find a bottle of completely clear water with green slime at the bottom which is the dead phyto lol

 

[testuser]

Yes I am so adamant about shaking the bottles of phyto every time I pop my head in the fridge during the day lol It really extends the life span to keep them suspended in the water.

They'll slowly settle on top of each other at the bottom of the bottle over time. If you don't shake it up for a while you'll open the fridge and find a bottle of completely clear water with green slime at the bottom which is the dead phyto lol

Very good info, thank you very much!