Phytoplankton experimentation

[namlessdude]

I am curious if anyone has any experience in this.

I want to attempt and make a mostly self sustaining system for my reef tank. To do that I need a food source for the fish that reproduces and a food source that is renewable with minimal effort and cost from my end.

I came up with the idea of culturing pods and brine shrimp by feeding them phyto.

Here is my question. Can i use old saltwater from waterchange to fertilize the phyto instead of buying fertilizer?

Any alternatives to fertilizers?

 

[Peace River]

It depends on what is in the old saltwater. While you are waiting for others to chime in, there are plenty of R2R threads and YouTube videos on raising phyto. Although bottled fertilizer isn't required, there will need to be some type of food source (e.g., light + something).

 

[namlessdude]

It depends on what is in the old saltwater. While you are waiting for others to chime in, there are plenty of R2R threads and YouTube videos on raising phyto. Although bottled fertilizer isn't required, there will need to be some type of food source (e.g., light + something).

I have been trying to look at the research and I can't find any guide talking about alternative food source. Don't get me wrong, I plan to give the phyto direct sunlight and include a bubbler for oxygen.

Logically, the phyto needs phosphate and nitrate to grow. Water from the tank would have both, as well as other nutrients combined with some fish poop which is a natural fertilizer.

If no one here has experience, I might run my own experiment and report on results!

 

[Pistondog]

Try it, but i think the batch maybe doomed from the start due to bacteria contamination.
Most successful phyto cultures start out semi sterile.

 

[bradreef]

No. Any contamination can crash a phyto culture. I've found that you need to sanitize or swap your culturing bottle at least every couple of weeks. Everything around culturing phyto long term is about a sanitary process.

 

[namlessdude]

No. Any contamination can crash a phyto culture. I've found that you need to sanitize or swap your culturing bottle at least every couple of weeks. Everything around culturing phyto long term is about a sanitary process.

This adds up since a lot of the articles always mention sterilization as a part of the process and tank water would have way too much bacteria. Ill stick to buying it for now.

 

[Peace River]

@Reef By Steele @Dinkins Aquatic Gardens

Can you weigh in on the OPs question in the original post? Thanks!!!

 

[bradreef]

This adds up since a lot of the articles always mention sterilization as a part of the process and tank water would have way too much bacteria. Ill stick to buying it for now.

Don't buy it. Spend 20 dollars and grow it.

I use 2 liters and sanitize with bleach. Many ways to spend $10 on lighting. Spend $10 on an air pump. Ide recommend doing 2 in case 1 dies

 

[namlessdude]

Don't buy it. Spend 20 dollars and grow it.

I use 2 liters and sanitize with bleach. Many ways to spend $10 on lighting. Spend $10 on an air pump. Ide recommend doing 2 in case 1 dies

I want to culture it but it sounds like it is high maintenance with the sterilization and fertilization. Is that just blown out of proportion in guides? Can it be easier and lower maintenance like a simple clean once every few weeks?

 

[Reef By Steele]

I am curious if anyone has any experience in this.

I want to attempt and make a mostly self sustaining system for my reef tank. To do that I need a food source for the fish that reproduces and a food source that is renewable with minimal effort and cost from my end.

I came up with the idea of culturing pods and brine shrimp by feeding them phyto.

Here is my question. Can i use old saltwater from waterchange to fertilize the phyto instead of buying fertilizer?

Any alternatives to fertilizers?

In my opinion using saltwater from the tank is a bad idea. You will introduce a lot of negatives like pods, ciliates, bacteria and other contaminates. The culture most likely cannot out produce pods etc as they will eat it as fast as produced.

We follow very rigid sterilization regimes as we sell our product. But for a general hobbyist you can skip some of what we do.

IO is sufficient for culturing Phyto so the least expensive salt is fine. There are posts and threads of people using miracle gro liquid to culture, but I would just purchase F/2 as it is made with the appropriate proportions of nitrate phosphate iron etc.

8 Oz should run a single gallon culture for over 6 months which is the recommended shelf life.

 

[Pistondog]

I want to culture it but it sounds like it is high maintenance with the sterilization and fertilization. Is that just blown out of proportion in guides? Can it be easier and lower maintenance like a simple clean once every few weeks?

The sterilization is not absolute, clean vessel with hot water, then swish around a tablespoon of alcohol to coat inside then dump. Fill with new saltwater, 1.015 sg and 10% culture phyto, and f2.
A larger starter amount outcompetes other stuff your sterilization might have missed.
Dont forget the bubbler and light. Some varieties like dimmer light to start, so use a sheet of copy paper around the vessel until it starts to darken.
Good luck, @Eldredge is a great resource for most things diy phyto.

 

[bradreef]

I have 2 types running and it's about 5-10 minutes per week of maintenance. Prob closer to 5. Feel free to dm me and I can answer any questions. I've been growing pods and phyto for a couple of years

 

[Eldredge]

I don't think you will have long term success using tank water. As others have mentioned, there are too many organisms that either eat or compete with phytoplankton. The fertilizer really isn't that expensive (less than the cost of the salt in the culture medium), and I think you will have much better success using what is referred to as "F/2" fertilizer. For most people, I think that Tetraselmis may be one of the easier/tougher strains to culture - that is the one I would recommend to start with.

It takes some care, but I think that most people can culture phyto if they think it is worth the effort. I think it is definitely beneficial to dose phyto to a reef system. Here is a fairly simple method to culture phytoplankton:

To get started use clear 2L soda bottles with some rigid airline tubing. You will need the bottles, some rigid airline tubing, some regular airline, an air pump, and a light source (fluorescent or LED works fine). Drill a hole in the cap that is a little larger than the rigid tubing (1/4" if you are using 3/16" tubing). The hole should be slightly larger to allow air to escape. I would recommend having two bottles with rigid airline for each culture so that you can have a sterilized bottle ready to go when you split the culture.

Contamination is going to be your main enemy. This can be in the form of bacteria, ciliates/protozoa, or other species of algae. It is important to sterilize the bottles and rigid airline each time before you use them. The simplest way is probably to use bleach. I would always use the same bottles for the same species just in case any cells survive. You will also want to clean your hands when switching from one culture to the next - I use hand sanitizer. If you can filter the air using a very fine filter (less than 1 micron would be ideal), that will be helpful but not mandatory. If you culture pods or especially rotifers, keep your phyto cultures far away and never move from the zooplankton cultures to the phytoplankton cultures.

Put 0.8ml of F/2 (assuming 1ml/2.5L concentration) in each sterilized bottle and fill about half way with clean/fresh (sterilized would be best) artificial sea water. Different species prefer slightly different salinities, but 30ppt will work for everything. Next add the 16oz of phyto. Then, top off with more saltwater stopping a couple of inches from the top. Now insert the rigid airline and adjust the air so that the culture looks like it is boiling gently. Set these bottles about 12-18" from your light (start at about 24" the first time because the phyto has been in the dark and move a few inches closer each day. Have the light on for 12-16 hours per day (I do 16).

The cultures should darken more each day. Once they look dark enough (usually 7-10 days), remove the cap and airline and pour half of the culture into a new sterilized bottle and use the other half to dose your tank. Top off the new culture with clean saltwater and 0.8ml of F/2. Keep repeating, and you have a constant supply of phyto.

Unfortunately, the cultures crash occasionally, or fail to get established. So, you may want to run two cultures of each species, or be sure to keep a fresh start in the fridge. If you want to start two cultures of each species right from the start, just adjust the amounts listed above. Of course, if your cultures crash at some point, I would be glad to sell you some fresh starts - some guys like to get a fresh start occasionally anyway.

Good luck if you decide to try culturing. Let me know if I can help.

 

[Rjramos]

I don't think you will have long term success using tank water. As others have mentioned, there are too many organisms that either eat or compete with phytoplankton. The fertilizer really isn't that expensive (less than the cost of the salt in the culture medium), and I think you will have much better success using what is referred to as "F/2" fertilizer. For most people, I think that Tetraselmis may be one of the easier/tougher strains to culture - that is the one I would recommend to start with.

It takes some care, but I think that most people can culture phyto if they think it is worth the effort. I think it is definitely beneficial to dose phyto to a reef system. Here is a fairly simple method to culture phytoplankton:

To get started use clear 2L soda bottles with some rigid airline tubing. You will need the bottles, some rigid airline tubing, some regular airline, an air pump, and a light source (fluorescent or LED works fine). Drill a hole in the cap that is a little larger than the rigid tubing (1/4" if you are using 3/16" tubing). The hole should be slightly larger to allow air to escape. I would recommend having two bottles with rigid airline for each culture so that you can have a sterilized bottle ready to go when you split the culture.

Contamination is going to be your main enemy. This can be in the form of bacteria, ciliates/protozoa, or other species of algae. It is important to sterilize the bottles and rigid airline each time before you use them. The simplest way is probably to use bleach. I would always use the same bottles for the same species just in case any cells survive. You will also want to clean your hands when switching from one culture to the next - I use hand sanitizer. If you can filter the air using a very fine filter (less than 1 micron would be ideal), that will be helpful but not mandatory. If you culture pods or especially rotifers, keep your phyto cultures far away and never move from the zooplankton cultures to the phytoplankton cultures.

Put 0.8ml of F/2 (assuming 1ml/2.5L concentration) in each sterilized bottle and fill about half way with clean/fresh (sterilized would be best) artificial sea water. Different species prefer slightly different salinities, but 30ppt will work for everything. Next add the 16oz of phyto. Then, top off with more saltwater stopping a couple of inches from the top. Now insert the rigid airline and adjust the air so that the culture looks like it is boiling gently. Set these bottles about 12-18" from your light (start at about 24" the first time because the phyto has been in the dark and move a few inches closer each day. Have the light on for 12-16 hours per day (I do 16).

The cultures should darken more each day. Once they look dark enough (usually 7-10 days), remove the cap and airline and pour half of the culture into a new sterilized bottle and use the other half to dose your tank. Top off the new culture with clean saltwater and 0.8ml of F/2. Keep repeating, and you have a constant supply of phyto.

Unfortunately, the cultures crash occasionally, or fail to get established. So, you may want to run two cultures of each species, or be sure to keep a fresh start in the fridge. If you want to start two cultures of each species right from the start, just adjust the amounts listed above. Of course, if your cultures crash at some point, I would be glad to sell you some fresh starts - some guys like to get a fresh start occasionally anyway.

Good luck if you decide to try culturing. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks! One of the better reads on the subject !

 

[-JoJoReefing-]

I don't think you will have long term success using tank water. As others have mentioned, there are too many organisms that either eat or compete with phytoplankton. The fertilizer really isn't that expensive (less than the cost of the salt in the culture medium), and I think you will have much better success using what is referred to as "F/2" fertilizer. For most people, I think that Tetraselmis may be one of the easier/tougher strains to culture - that is the one I would recommend to start with.

It takes some care, but I think that most people can culture phyto if they think it is worth the effort. I think it is definitely beneficial to dose phyto to a reef system. Here is a fairly simple method to culture phytoplankton:

To get started use clear 2L soda bottles with some rigid airline tubing. You will need the bottles, some rigid airline tubing, some regular airline, an air pump, and a light source (fluorescent or LED works fine). Drill a hole in the cap that is a little larger than the rigid tubing (1/4" if you are using 3/16" tubing). The hole should be slightly larger to allow air to escape. I would recommend having two bottles with rigid airline for each culture so that you can have a sterilized bottle ready to go when you split the culture.

Contamination is going to be your main enemy. This can be in the form of bacteria, ciliates/protozoa, or other species of algae. It is important to sterilize the bottles and rigid airline each time before you use them. The simplest way is probably to use bleach. I would always use the same bottles for the same species just in case any cells survive. You will also want to clean your hands when switching from one culture to the next - I use hand sanitizer. If you can filter the air using a very fine filter (less than 1 micron would be ideal), that will be helpful but not mandatory. If you culture pods or especially rotifers, keep your phyto cultures far away and never move from the zooplankton cultures to the phytoplankton cultures.

Put 0.8ml of F/2 (assuming 1ml/2.5L concentration) in each sterilized bottle and fill about half way with clean/fresh (sterilized would be best) artificial sea water. Different species prefer slightly different salinities, but 30ppt will work for everything. Next add the 16oz of phyto. Then, top off with more saltwater stopping a couple of inches from the top. Now insert the rigid airline and adjust the air so that the culture looks like it is boiling gently. Set these bottles about 12-18" from your light (start at about 24" the first time because the phyto has been in the dark and move a few inches closer each day. Have the light on for 12-16 hours per day (I do 16).

The cultures should darken more each day. Once they look dark enough (usually 7-10 days), remove the cap and airline and pour half of the culture into a new sterilized bottle and use the other half to dose your tank. Top off the new culture with clean saltwater and 0.8ml of F/2. Keep repeating, and you have a constant supply of phyto.

Unfortunately, the cultures crash occasionally, or fail to get established. So, you may want to run two cultures of each species, or be sure to keep a fresh start in the fridge. If you want to start two cultures of each species right from the start, just adjust the amounts listed above. Of course, if your cultures crash at some point, I would be glad to sell you some fresh starts - some guys like to get a fresh start occasionally anyway.

Good luck if you decide to try culturing. Let me know if I can help.

You mentioned that rotifer culture and phyto culture should stay away from each other. I wonder if it means the rotifer could ‘fly’ with water mist and enter phyto culture?

 

[Reef By Steele]

You mentioned that rotifer culture and phyto culture should stay away from each other. I wonder if it means the rotifer could ‘fly’ with water mist and enter phyto culture?

Yes possibly either a rogue or cyst becoming air born or just a little lax on bio security and accidentally use some thing in both cultures.

 

[Eldredge]

You mentioned that rotifer culture and phyto culture should stay away from each other. I wonder if it means the rotifer could ‘fly’ with water mist and enter phyto culture?

Yes, that can actually happen. It's also very difficult to never use an instrument or container or even your hand in one culture and then go to the other. Even with care, it seems to happen eventually.

 

[-JoJoReefing-]

Got it! Thank you! I put my phyto and pod cultures quite close to each other in my laundry room, i am probably lucky for the past few months, good to know the risk of air borne! Will have to find some other room to place my cultures apart then.