Another Phytoplankton Culture Tutorial

[martin.a]

Left (Tetra) looks okay, middle looks bad, right (Nanno) looks good.
If you have another set of lab bottles you can sterilize them and then decant off the plankton if you want. The Nannochloropsis would probably be fine either way, but it might be better for the Tetraselmis

Thanks! I will decant all 3. Fresh bottles are no problem. Just decanting, no new medium added. I still have some hopes for the Phaeodactylum diatom (the middle one). Today it doesn't look worse than yesterday. But I don't know how dead culture of Phaeodactylum looks like.
I was hoping Phaeodactylum would be really beneficial to the copepods and to help keep nuisance algae at bay.

 

[EnterName]

Left (Tetra) looks okay, middle looks bad, right (Nanno) looks good.
If you have another set of lab bottles you can sterilize them and then decant off the plankton if you want. The Nannochloropsis would probably be fine either way, but it might be better for the Tetraselmis

Thanks! I will decant all 3. Fresh bottles are no problem. Just decanting, no new medium added. I still have some hopes for the Phaeodactylum diatom (the middle one). Today it doesn't look worse than yesterday. But I don't know how dead culture of Phaeodactylum looks like.
I was hoping Phaeodactylum would be really beneficial to the copepods and to help keep nuisance algae at bay.

To be honest I don't know how beneficial plankton dosing is to copepods. They live mostly in/on the substrate and rocks and not the open water where the plankton will be. They surely have the means to catch a little bit but I feel like detritus and benthic diatoms are more beneficial to them.

I don't know if you can manage to get the diatoms to bounce back. Note that F/2 fertilizer alone does not cut it, you also need a silicate solution if you haven't used specialized fertilizer anyway.

 

[EnterName]

If your phosphate is elevated, try using granular ferric oxide (GFO) and cut back on coral feeding, especially broadcast feeding. There's an ongoing equilibrium reaction in your tank: phosphate binds to the calcium carbonate in your rocks and substrate, and also dissolves back out of it depending on conditions. When you do a water change and lower the dissolved phosphate level, that equilibrium shifts against you: some of the phosphate bound in the rock and substrate dissolves back into the water, which can make it seem like the water change barely helped. This is why water changes alone are an inefficient way to deal with high phosphate. Adsorbing media like GFO works better because it removes phosphate directly rather than relying on that equilibrium. There are other adsorbers, but they tend to be either less effective or are prone to leaching aluminum into your tank, which isn't something you want.

Ahh that explains alot. I been doing 20 percent watwe chamges at least 3 times a week but I can't seem to get it down. I have gha in some spots not alot . I was thinking it was because I wasn't vacuuming the sand when I did it. The other day I put fresh carbon and now my nitrates are 0 and phosphate is .26 with hanna checker. Gonna try the gfo . I lost a duncan . 1 of my torches and my poor goni has shrunk so small butstill hanging in there. All my other levels are fine other than ph seems to stay at 8 or 8.1

Use GFO according to the instructions. Don't overdose it. Corals really seem to hate fast changes in phosphate levels. Upwards is worse than downward, but still be careful. There are by the way people that run their tanks at even higher levels just fine, but in my experience this makes establishing new sensitive frags more difficult so I can recommend going very low.

 

[martin.a]

To be honest I don't know how beneficial plankton dosing is to copepods. They live mostly in/on the substrate and rocks and not the open water where the plankton will be. They surely have the means to catch a little bit but I feel like detritus and benthic diatoms are more beneficial to them.

I don't know if you can manage to get the diatoms to bounce back. Note that F/2 fertilizer alone does not cut it, you also need a silicate solution if you haven't used specialized fertilizer anyway.

I thought you would be asleep by now ;-)

Agree with dubious evidence of dosing phyto to feed pods. But I can see a lot of them in the water column, and I may see increased excitement after dosing. So maybe... Still, my current population expanded in a new, still cycling almost sterile tank by grazing only (mostly) on bacteria. I am under impression that diatom cells are 'heavier' and more likely to sink to the bottom and actually benefit benthic pods. Hence the idea with Phaeodactylum.

To my understand F2 includes some silicates, but I added extra silicates to the diatom culture. They should be happy. If I did not kill them. From your experience: could this culture be still light-brownish in colour if they were all dead? I can also see very tiny 'swirling particles'. They were there when I added the start culture. So, I assume they are the suspended diatom cells. I should take a sample and look at it, but I am afraid of the 'tested to dead' syndrome, and try not to touch without a clear benefit to the culture.

 

[martin.a]

Use GFO according to the instructions. Don't overdose it. Corals really seem to hate fast changes in phosphate levels. Upwards is worse than downward, but still be careful. There are by the way people that run their tanks at even higher levels just fine, but in my experience this makes establishing new sensitive frags more difficult so I can recommend going very low.

Just to add a second voice: I used Seachem Phosguard in bag instead of GFO in 2 tanks with good results - phosphates dropped over 4 weeks. I followed the instructions on the box.
Alegetly, Phosguard may release aluminium. I would not keep a bag in for longer than a week, maybe 2 weeks. I use Phosguard as this was what was used in the tanks at work before, and I heard that without a reactor Phosguard is easier to control than GFO. I was also worried than GFO may be too effective.

Unsolicited advise: I would calm down on water changes, and on sand vacumming. Vacuum only if you have heaps of 'stuff growing on the sand', e.g cyanobacteria or dinos to remove the biomass. Otherwise, get nassarius snails, copepods and isopods. Possibly a pepermint shrimp or 2.

 

[vittpsu21]

Looks similar to what I do, I don't go as far on the cleaning as you, even with my diatom cultures. I mostly clean out, let dry, hydrogen peroxide the whole inside and let it dry, then fill with saltwater --->add bleach--->24 hours later add vitamin c. Before I restart I test with a chlorine strip, I do crash my diatoms every so often, but otherwise seems to be working pretty well for me.

I run 2 phyto cultures and 2 pod cultures off one airpump with y splitters

 

[vittpsu21]

To be honest I don't know how beneficial plankton dosing is to copepods. They live mostly in/on the substrate and rocks and not the open water where the plankton will be. They surely have the means to catch a little bit but I feel like detritus and benthic diatoms are more beneficial to them.

I don't know if you can manage to get the diatoms to bounce back. Note that F/2 fertilizer alone does not cut it, you also need a silicate solution if you haven't used specialized fertilizer anyway.

I have dosed about 125ml daily for over a year (split over micro doses 24 a day) I always have pods crawling on glass despite many wrasses. Not sure I can contribute it all to the phyto, but I believe it helps, I have reseeded pods many times for sure. My mandarin shows up in a few weeks so we will see how it holds after that

 

[vittpsu21]

This will probably depend on the plankton species and overall purity. I would say a week or two if you shake it every day at least once. You will lose cells in the process so growing a new culture may take a bit longer than a fresh starter, but it should work.

Certain cultures are so sensitive I wouldn't recommend storing them at all. Grow them, split them, dose them, but never store them. Nannochlorpsis salina and oculata are robust though.

I have stored Chaetoceros muellerii and Nanno/Iso for about 4 weeks, but I have to agree with enter here, the restart was VERY slow when I reused them after that long. The fresher the better

 

[martin.a]

Looks similar to what I do, I don't go as far on the cleaning as you, even with my diatom cultures. I mostly clean out, let dry, hydrogen peroxide the whole inside and let it dry, then fill with saltwater --->add bleach--->24 hours later add vitamin c. Before I restart I test with a chlorine strip, I do crash my diatoms every so often, but otherwise seems to be working pretty well for me.

I run 2 phyto cultures and 2 pod cultures off one airpump with y splitters

Do you use vit. C to neutralize chlorine?

 

[Saltsavage504]

Use GFO according to the instructions. Don't overdose it. Corals really seem to hate fast changes in phosphate levels. Upwards is worse than downward, but still be careful. There are by the way people that run their tanks at even higher levels just fine, but in my experience this makes establishing new sensitive frags more difficult so I can recommend going very low.

Just checked my phosphate and im at .18 so it went down a good bit I did 2 doses of tropic marin elim phosphate stuff

 

[Saltsavage504]

Just to add a second voice: I used Seachem Phosguard in bag instead of GFO in 2 tanks with good results - phosphates dropped over 4 weeks. I followed the instructions on the box.
Alegetly, Phosguard may release aluminium. I would not keep a bag in for longer than a week, maybe 2 weeks. I use Phosguard as this was what was used in the tanks at work before, and I heard that without a reactor Phosguard is easier to control than GFO. I was also worried than GFO may be too effective.

Unsolicited advise: I would calm down on water changes, and on sand vacumming. Vacuum only if you have heaps of 'stuff growing on the sand', e.g cyanobacteria or dinos to remove the biomass. Otherwise, get nassarius snails, copepods and isopods. Possibly a pepermint shrimp or 2.

Got 1 big snail and the choch snail with a trunk lol and like 100 trochus snails they all tiny must have hitch hicked was sucking them up cause so many but now I let them work. I also have a spaghetti worm that I can't seem to catch he sits in rock with arms out and I try every dang day had a tuxedo urchin but he was knocking stuff over too much. Was thinking about some kind of crab that eats gha

 

[Saltsavage504]

If your phosphate is elevated, try using granular ferric oxide (GFO) and cut back on coral feeding, especially broadcast feeding. There's an ongoing equilibrium reaction in your tank: phosphate binds to the calcium carbonate in your rocks and substrate, and also dissolves back out of it depending on conditions. When you do a water change and lower the dissolved phosphate level, that equilibrium shifts against you: some of the phosphate bound in the rock and substrate dissolves back into the water, which can make it seem like the water change barely helped. This is why water changes alone are an inefficient way to deal with high phosphate. Adsorbing media like GFO works better because it removes phosphate directly rather than relying on that equilibrium. There are other adsorbers, but they tend to be either less effective or are prone to leaching aluminum into your tank, which isn't something you want.

 

[Saltsavage504]

My next problem is figuring out why alot of my zoas wont open

 

[vittpsu21]

Looks similar to what I do, I don't go as far on the cleaning as you, even with my diatom cultures. I mostly clean out, let dry, hydrogen peroxide the whole inside and let it dry, then fill with saltwater --->add bleach--->24 hours later add vitamin c. Before I restart I test with a chlorine strip, I do crash my diatoms every so often, but otherwise seems to be working pretty well for me.

I run 2 phyto cultures and 2 pod cultures off one airpump with y splitters

Do you use vit. C to neutralize chlorine?

Yep, works almost instantly after a swirl but I always test with a strip first to be sure 1ml of bleach and about 0.6 vitamin c

 

[EnterName]

I thought you would be asleep by now ;-)

That's what I should have done

To my understand F2 includes some silicates, but I added extra silicates to the diatom culture.

I'm not aware that silicates are part of the F/2 recipe.
https://ncma.bigelow.org/PDF Files/NCMA algal medium f_2.pdf

Just to add a second voice: I used Seachem Phosguard in bag instead of GFO in 2 tanks with good results - phosphates dropped over 4 weeks. I followed the instructions on the box.

As Fish Fan pointed out earlier, Randy Holmes-Farley is very skeptical about Seachems products so I would advice to use GFO. Aluminum-based phosphate adsorbers will release aluminum. That's not unique to Seachem.