Please, Please, help ID what I'm fighting!

[hoffmeyerz]

I don't know definitely what I'm fighting, pretty sure it's green cyano at least mostly.
I can blow it off rocks and stir it off the sand. If I stir it all up it will catch in the filters in my sump and in the skimmer. It's a light coating after cleaning but comes back fast and is on rocks and glass in 1-2 days.
Phos bottomed out a while ago but corals were growing and happy so I thought maybe it was reading 0 as it was being consumed. This stuff was lightly around until I increased Reefroids trying to get phos back up. Nitrates never bottomed but got low as I prob cleaned to aggressively lately. Pretty sure I see cyano, diatoms, and a couple dinos. I couldn't get a good shot of dinos since I only saw a couple free and couldn't track them.
Results the other day:
Phos: 0
Nitrates: 8.5

 

[hoffmeyerz]

I will also add that it goes away at night with light out.
I'm going crazy here. Want to bring nutrients up unless it's cyano that will feed off it. I would bring phos down if it's cyano but already reading 0. I'm sure it's reading that low because it's being consumed though.
Here's the tank under white light:

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Bumping. Really hoping someone can help me ID this so I can get a concrete plan of attack going.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Throwing this back out again. Nitrates still low, 6.5 today, and phos still testing 0, all Hanna tests. Feeding heavier to get nitrates up but stopped adding phos and Reefeoids till I know what I'm dealing with.
Appreciate any feedback!
@taricha
@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal

 

[smitten with ocean life]

im sorry. how frustrating! @Randy Holmes-Farley ?

 

[Reefer Matt]

I use Chemiclean, but I know not everyone wants to.

 

[Tamberav]

It is cyano, you can tell by all the filiments. I get the green when nutrients are ultra low and the red when they are high.

 

[JTP424]

Agreed Cyano by the "goes away" at lights out.
How does your pod/copepod population look?

 

[hoffmeyerz]

I use Chemiclean, but I know not everyone wants to.

Not opposed to Chemiclean, wanted to try everything else first.

Agreed Cyano by the "goes away" at lights out.
How does your pod/copepod population look?

That's what my line of thinking was too but I couldn't beat it back, even with 0 phos. No pods in the tank yet

 

[hoffmeyerz]

It is cyano, you can tell by all the filiments. I get the green when nutrients are ultra low and the red when they are high.

Fits my thinking as well but I'm not sure how to address it. I was dumping tons of diy phos in trying to get off 0 but couldn't, I think it was just feeding off it.

 

[Lavey29]

Yes cyano, cut out the white light and increase flow to affected areas.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Yes cyano, cut out the white light and increase flow to affected areas.

Virtually no white light, running Radion lps/softie profile. It's a 75gal tank with two xr15 pros with diffusers at 70% and on a ten hour Schedule, I can go down to eight though. Tank gets decent flow now but it covers EVERYWHERE regardless of flow. I've experimented with repositioning pumps and higher power but all that happened was the fish stayed in the corners and wouldn't swim out in the open space.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I will also add that it goes away at night with light out.
I'm going crazy here. Want to bring nutrients up unless it's cyano that will feed off it. I would bring phos down if it's cyano but already reading 0. I'm sure it's reading that low because it's being consumed though.
Here's the tank under white light:

This is cyano and chemiclean is an alternative and not solution and I cant justify the cost for such a tiny vial. First step is to identify cause.
Cyano blooms typically happen when phosphate, nitrate and other organic compound levels are too high where there are areas with little flow, detritus builds up and becomes a base for cyano. Water changes are important unlike what the perception of not doing one which reduces the organic content that feeds cyano.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with air bubbles which form from the reaction chamber allow dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to the collection cup, where it settles as skim-mate. When a protein skimmer is ineffective or absent or cant keep up with the tank, the air bubbles created might be insufficient and can trigger this outbreak .
- Using Aminos can actually feed cyano.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your tank with nutrients is often causes cyano
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured will be a breeding ground for this red slime .
- If you don’t change your water regularly, you’ll soon have this red substance as regular water changes dissolve nutrients which support cyano
- Using water high in nitrates or phosphates are a base for cyano. . . . . Tap water is an example of po4 and no3 introduction.
- Inadequate water flow is often a chief cause of cyano as slow moving water combined with excessive dissolved nutrients creates red slime algae

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the 5 days, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

This is cyano and chemiclean is an alternative and not solution and I cant justify the cost for such a tiny vial. First step is to identify cause.
Cyano blooms typically happen when phosphate, nitrate and other organic compound levels are too high where there are areas with little flow, detritus builds up and becomes a base for cyano. Water changes are important unlike what the perception of not doing one which reduces the organic content that feeds cyano.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with air bubbles which form from the reaction chamber allow dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to the collection cup, where it settles as skim-mate. When a protein skimmer is ineffective or absent or cant keep up with the tank, the air bubbles created might be insufficient and can trigger this outbreak .
- Using Aminos can actually feed cyano.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your tank with nutrients is often causes cyano
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured will be a breeding ground for this red slime .
- If you don’t change your water regularly, you’ll soon have this red substance as regular water changes dissolve nutrients which support cyano
- Using water high in nitrates or phosphates are a base for cyano. . . . . Tap water is an example of po4 and no3 introduction.
- Inadequate water flow is often a chief cause of cyano as slow moving water combined with excessive dissolved nutrients creates red slime algae

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the 5 days, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

I have always run my skimmer even though I have quite a low bio-load. Skimmer always adjusts itself as tank conditions have changed. If I feed heavier for awhile skimmer produces more skimmate and vice versa.
Water parameters were stable with NO3 running around 12-15 and PO4 typically .05 while running Phosgaurd. Overall params got even better once I got AFR on a dosing pump.
When I added 4 coral frags I noticed nutrients drop so I took out the Phosgaurd. Eventually NO3 settled around 10 and PO4 hit 0 so I started using Reefeoids. I tried to go slowly but was hard to be consistent and PO4 went up and down as high as .09. It was during this time I saw the small patch of red cyano disappear and the green start appearing. Very light at first then took off. Cleanup crew is 3 large turbos, a peppermint shrimp, a long spine urchin, and a conch.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have always run my skimmer even though I have quite a low bio-load. Skimmer always adjusts itself as tank conditions have changed. If I feed heavier for awhile skimmer produces more skimmate and vice versa.
Water parameters were stable with NO3 running around 12-15 and PO4 typically .05 while running Phosgaurd. Overall params got even better once I got AFR on a dosing pump.
When I added 4 coral frags I noticed nutrients drop so I took out the Phosgaurd. Eventually NO3 settled around 10 and PO4 hit 0 so I started using Reefeoids. I tried to go slowly but was hard to be consistent and PO4 went up and down as high as .09. It was during this time I saw the small patch of red cyano disappear and the green start appearing. Very light at first then took off. Cleanup crew is 3 large turbos, a peppermint shrimp, a long spine urchin, and a conch.

Do not add anything for phos until resolved. You are in essence feeding the cyano

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Do not add anything for phos until resolved. You are in essence feeding the cyano

Agreed, that still leaves me stuck. Phos is reading 0 most likely because the cyano is consuming it but if I try to lower it blindly I risk truly bottoming out and inviting a dino breakout. If I try adding bottle bacteria like MB7 I risk bottoming out nitrates which are already very low at 6.5. I tried a 3 day blackout before and all it did was really tick off my coral, I'm still trying to get the goni fully back to where it was.
I'm more and more feeling like my only option is Chemiclean and then be right on top of nutrients to stay balanced after treatment.
I'm VERY open to suggestions!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Agreed, that still leaves me stuck. Phos is reading 0 most likely because the cyano is consuming it but if I try to lower it blindly I risk truly bottoming out and inviting a dino breakout. If I try adding bottle bacteria like MB7 I risk bottoming out nitrates which are already very low at 6.5. I tried a 3 day blackout before and all it did was really tick off my coral, I'm still trying to get the goni fully back to where it was.
I'm more and more feeling like my only option is Chemiclean and then be right on top of nutrients to stay balanced after treatment.
I'm VERY open to suggestions!

ChemiClean is Ok to use but realize the cyano may or may not come back or leave at all as chemiclean is literally an antibiotic. With lights off , dont worry about levels hitting zero and approaching dino state as Dino too needs light

 

[hoffmeyerz]

ChemiClean is Ok to use but realize the cyano may or may not come back or leave at all as chemiclean is literally an antibiotic. With lights off , dont worry about levels hitting zero and approaching dino state as Dino too needs light

I understand. Sorry if I misspoke also, I'm not worried about levels hitting 0 with lights out, it was my coral I'm concerned about. They didn't handle the 3 day blackout I did very well. I can try it again but it really didn't help much and coral really took a hit.
The way I understand things as it is, I can't starve out the cyano because my nutrients are too low and coral don't like the blackout. I can't feed a competitor because the cyano will take it.
Right now the cyano is dominant, if I wipe it even most of the way out with Chemiclean and keep on top of nutrient levels to let other organisms out compete the cyano won't that work?
This hurts my head!!

 

[hoffmeyerz]

@Reefer Matt do you have a certain recipe or process you use with Chemiclean to keep things stable after treatment?
I'm worried of being on a different problem with Chemiclean but I'm feeling very stuck right now.

 

[Reefer Matt]

@Reefer Matt do you have a certain recipe or process you use with Chemiclean to keep things stable after treatment?
I'm worried of being on a different problem with Chemiclean but I'm feeling very stuck right now.

I just follow the directions, but take the cup off the skimmer and let it overflow. They say to use an air pump and stone because oxygen depletes some while in use. I do a 50% water change afterwards too, but I know that isn’t feasible for some tanks. It usually takes about 2-3 days. Some Reefers have experienced a dino outbreak afterwards, but I haven’t.