Possible velvet outbreak

[Mathew0]

So, it appears that I have a velvet outbreak in the new tank.
I am filling up the 125 and will attempt to catch all the fish once I get the salinity right in there. I have some copper and antibiotics, I don’t know if it’s enough to dose 100 gallons, tho.
I can’t just treat the display and kill everything, so moving out the fish seems the only option.
I have all that living rock I can put in there for the ammonia to get processed. It’ll ruin that rock with copper, but such is life.
Question: 1) will putting the rocks even matter when I mix in the antibiotics, or will it kill the bacteria?
2) do I need to set the sump back up for that tank?
The Internet says I need the DT to run fishless for min 42 days for velvet. That means keeping all fish in the 125 for over a month. Are weekly water changes going to be enough?
I’ve only ever had to qt 1 fish at a time. This is kinda crazy. I also don’t know if all the fish are even supposed to be treated this way. I know LFS runs wrasses differently, maybe anthias too? I don’t know if the eel should be in copper, either.
Please advise away.

 

[Mathew0]

He seems to have the worst of it

 

[Mathew0]

Anthias is looking fuzzy, too.

Foxface and purple tang both show signs, but they’re harder to catch on camera

 

[Mathew0]

#fishmedic
I have also read to FW dip before adding to QT. Should I attempt this? At least with the emperor?
Should I leave the eel in the DT? Will the fallow process still be effective?

 

[vetteguy53081]

He seems to have the worst of it

FW dip won’t do much for velvet and appears to be velvet
Once qt tank set up, treat with coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 for a Full 30 days and leave display tank without fish for 6-7 weeks

 

[Mathew0]

Thank you.
The process outlined by @Jay Hemdal in the sticky thread says not to treat eels with copper. Should I leave the eel in the DT?

 

[MnFish1]

lets ask @Jay Hemdal - however, I believe treating for a disease may be different than a preemptive quarantine protocol (there are examples of people who have treated eels for velvet with copper and no immediate problems). In any case chloroquine may be an option if you can get it. However, you cannot leave the Eel in the display - and if this is velvet (as it looks) - it's imperative that you get your fish treated ASAP with copper (and the eel with chloroquine in a separate tank) while your display has no fish. If you have to leave the eel in the display for a day or so - or until you can get another treatment thats fine - but eventually, the tank will need a fallow period - 6-8 weeks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you.
The process outlined by @Jay Hemdal in the sticky thread says not to treat eels with copper. Should I leave the eel in the DT?

Correct- General cure is an alternative for treatment of eels

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Anthias is looking fuzzy, too.

Foxface and purple tang both show signs, but they’re harder to catch on camera

The Emperor likely has severe marine ich. If you can see discrete white spots, it isn't velvet. Velvet will cause rapid breathing and not eating, followed by death in a few days. Ich starts with a few white spots that grow in number over days. Eventually, the fish stops eating and will start to breath faster.

Trouble is, once ich gets to this point, treatment is very difficult. It takes 3 to 5 days for copper medications to start to work, and by this time, the fish may not have that much time.

The standard treatment for either ich or velvet is to move the fish to a treatment tank and dose copper power or coppersafe at 2.25 ppm measured with a Hanna meter. I understand the logistics of doing that can make the process difficult to impossible.

Eels can catch velvet and can be carriers of ich. In this case, I'd treat it with coppersafe also. It will likely go off feed, but eels often do that on their own with no real problems.

Jay

 

[Mathew0]

Ok, thanks everyone. I’ve got the separate tank set up with copper. I got the fish that have it worst in there last night. As you mentioned, the emperor had it pretty bad and did not survive the night. I’ll work on catching the remainder of the fish this morning.
Is the treatMent protocol any different for a this or wrasses?

 

[Dom]

So, it appears that I have a velvet outbreak in the new tank.
I am filling up the 125 and will attempt to catch all the fish once I get the salinity right in there. I have some copper and antibiotics, I don’t know if it’s enough to dose 100 gallons, tho.

If you only have enough to treat 75 gallons of water, why not fill the tank only 75%?

 

[Mathew0]

Yes, I only filled about 80 gallons into the 125 as that was all the salt I had left to mix up. I have plenty of copper and there was just enough antibiotics to treat 80 gallons.
I have most of the fish in there. The eel is hiding, I’ll probably be able to catch him tonight with some food. The last surviving anthias is hiding inside the rockwork, and I don’t know how I’m going to be able to catch her. Very skittish.
I only treated with copper to 1/2 intensity until all the fish have had a chance to acclimate to it, then I’ll add the other 1/2 in a few hours.
Most of the fish are doing fine, but the little coral beauty was on its side and panting within a few minutes. I pulled it out and put in a bucket of water from the DT. It wasn’t showing much sign of illness, a couple small white spots on the tail. I’m hoping it turns around soon and maybe I’ll drip it.

 

[Mathew0]

The coral beauty is now in the medicated tank. I took the wrasses out, tho. They were both free floating on their sides and breathing heavily. They’re in the corral grow out tank now. I’ll just keep them in there and keep an eye on them for signs. LFS recommended observation qt with metro and prazi for the eel since it isn’t showing any signs. I might put the eel and wrassss in the medicated tank after the copper course is finished and do all of them in metro and prazi.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Correct- General cure is an alternative for treatment of eels

What’s the thinking here since neither metro nor prazi treat ich?

 

[vetteguy53081]

What’s the thinking here since neither metro nor prazi treat ich?

You can use Coppersafe or copper power but treat at therapeutic level; 2.25 with added aeration and do monitor ammonia levels.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, I only filled about 80 gallons into the 125 as that was all the salt I had left to mix up. I have plenty of copper and there was just enough antibiotics to treat 80 gallons.
I have most of the fish in there. The eel is hiding, I’ll probably be able to catch him tonight with some food. The last surviving anthias is hiding inside the rockwork, and I don’t know how I’m going to be able to catch her. Very skittish.
I only treated with copper to 1/2 intensity until all the fish have had a chance to acclimate to it, then I’ll add the other 1/2 in a few hours.
Most of the fish are doing fine, but the little coral beauty was on its side and panting within a few minutes. I pulled it out and put in a bucket of water from the DT. It wasn’t showing much sign of illness, a couple small white spots on the tail. I’m hoping it turns around soon and maybe I’ll drip it.

Fingers crossed, but with one fish dying and the coral beauty and wrasses laying on their sides, there may not be enough time for the copper to work. What type of copper are you using?

 

[ariellemermaid]

You can use Coppersafe or copper power but treat at therapeutic level; 2.25 with added aeration and do monitor ammonia levels.

On the topic of ammonia keep in mind no test kit is accurate with copper. Some recommend the Seachem ammonia badge but on my first QT, with no copper, it was still yellow when the fish were dead 4 days later and API read 0.5! So I’ll never trust that thing again.

Seachem Prime has been shown safe with at least CopperPower and Fritz claims it’s safe with Coppersafe (don’t know anyone who’s tried it though). Not Cupramine though! Can get it at Petco and I’ve used it at least initially on nearly every QT I’ve done. So especially adding a bunch of fish at once to an uncycled tank, I personally would dose that according to directions.

Condolences on the casualties! It’s crazy how fast it’s happening.

 

[vetteguy53081]

On the topic of ammonia keep in mind no test kit is accurate with copper. Some recommend the Seachem ammonia badge but on my first QT, with no copper, it was still yellow when the fish were dead 4 days later and API read 0.5! So I’ll never trust that thing again.

Seachem Prime has been shown safe with at least CopperPower and Fritz claims it’s safe with Coppersafe (don’t know anyone who’s tried it though). Not Cupramine though! Can get it at Petco and I’ve used it at least initially on nearly every QT I’ve done. So especially adding a bunch of fish at once to an uncycled tank, I personally would dose that according to directions.

Condolences on the casualties! It’s crazy how fast it’s happening.

I have no confidence in the badge and test kit gives you a basis. The point is to not let it climb to toxic levels

 

[Mathew0]

The idea with metro and prazi after the copper treatment is to just kill off anything else that might be present.
I’m using copper power. I also have some copper safe, but not enough for 80 gallons and I feel like it will be confusing to use 2 brands.
The coral beauty turned around and is now just hiding behind a piece of pvc, but alive. I removed the wrasses as they were not looking good in the medication. They are in my 20 gallon coral grow out and look fine. Also, the white spots on their fins appears to be gone.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The idea with metro and prazi after the copper treatment is to just kill off anything else that might be present.
I’m using copper power. I also have some copper safe, but not enough for 80 gallons and I feel like it will be confusing to use 2 brands.
The coral beauty turned around and is now just hiding behind a piece of pvc, but alive. I removed the wrasses as they were not looking good in the medication. They are in my 20 gallon coral grow out and look fine. Also, the white spots on their fins appears to be gone.

Copper power and coppersafe are essentially identical.

Watch the wrasses though - it is common for ich to appear to improve when you move fish to a new tank (due to the timing of the trophonts dropping off). It very often returns if you just move the fish one time. The basis for the tank transfer method for controlling ich is just that - moving the fish from tank to tank and out run the parasite.