Potential treatment for dinos?

[fohadi16]

Hello all! New to reefing but I have a masters in Marine Biology, if that even gives me any credibility lol. I recently had my first dino outbreak, I let nutrients hit 0 when I was on vacation and I returned to a disgusting looking reef tank. At the time I didnt have a microscope so there was no way I could ID them, I set up my UV in case it was ostreo and began to raise nutrients. All was getting worse. I finally got my microscope and ID'd them as a mix of both ostreo and amph. 2 days ago they had taken over my LR. Using some papers found on google scholar I concluded that by raising temp the bacteria have a chance to not only out compete the dinos but also increase nitrification rates and compensate for my overfeeding, "The optimum temperature for the growth of nitrifying bacteria, according to the literature, is between 28° C and 36° C, Growth constants of nitrifying bacteria are greatly affected by temperature (Table 3.9). Figure 3.2 shows that the nitrification rate is a function of temperatures between 5° and 35° C. The maximum growth rate occurs at approximately 30° C" as well as another article stating the optimal temps for a few different species of dinos, those temps were far below 83 so its safe to assume that the rate of asexual fission in the dinos would be greatly reduced. I got microbacter7, microbacter clean, (and today, amazon delivered late) some SpongeExcel. I raised tank temp to 83 degrees and began dosing (still running UV at night). Day one nothing changed, Day 2: woke up to a few small patches on the sand, before lights out there were about 6 patches on the sand, as of today the sand was completely clear in the morning, and now there is only one small patch on the sand near lights out time. Took a sample of clear areas and it is completely dino free, just some diatoms floating around. I am unsure if the treatment had any success or if this is just something that happens before they spread like crazy, but I would love to know if anyone has any similar experience with this type of treatment. Below are the links for the articles I based the treatment on. I will keep this thread updated.

The Influence of Temperature on the Nitrification Rate - Nitrogen Removal

The optimum temperature for the growth of nitrifying bacteria, according to the literature, is between 28 C and 36 C, although an optimum temperature of up to

www.climate-policy-watcher.org

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/002209819290076M

 

[Graemesreef]

You have a Masters in Marine Biology? From where?

 

[wtdenk]

Thank you for sharing. Did you have any livestock that was adversely impacted due to temp hike?

 

[CoralB]

The concern I have is the 83 degree temperature and its effects on coral ie: bleaching out the zooxanthellae . The out competing with good bacteria I believe along with lowering time schedule and intensity of light . Increased flow , manual removal , UV light , and upping nutrients especially phosphates and nitrates while keeping the rest of the parameters steady and stable. In theory altering temperature can solve a lot of issues but my worry is at what expense to the livestock . Curious what your outcome is !
Please keep us posted

 

[fohadi16]

You have a Masters in Marine Biology? From where?

BS from UCF, Masters from Florida Tech. But honestly I didnt really use anything that I previously knew from my studies in this article, only stuff I researched online for my current outbreak.

 

[fohadi16]

Thank you for sharing. Did you have any livestock that was adversely impacted due to temp hike?

I have 2 O. Clownfish, one blood shrimp, one turbo, bunch of ceriths. my tank is mainly SPS dominated, i have acropora, pocillopora, Stylophora, cyphastrea, Montipora, Psammocora, octospawn, a few mushrooms, and unfortunately (due to no research impulse buy as my first coral) a kenya tree. Other than my kenya tree that closed (most likely due to increased nitrification) everyone else is completely fine. My octospawn has never looked better, which is very odd because I was most worried about it.

 

[fohadi16]

The concern I have is the 83 degree temperature and its effects on coral ie: bleaching out the zooxanthellae . The out competing with good bacteria I believe along with lowering time schedule and intensity of light . Increased flow , manual removal , UV light , and upping nutrients especially phosphates and nitrates while keeping the rest of the parameters steady and stable. In theory altering temperature can solve a lot of issues but my worry is at what expense to the livestock . Curious what your outcome is !
Please keep us posted

"The zooxanthellae facilitate the precipitation of calcium carbonate micro-spicules within the tissues of the soft corals. The symbiotic relationship in both scleractinians and octocorals generally operates within a defined temperature range of ∼18 to 33°C [26] with optimal temperatures at 25 to 29°C [27]."

I made sure to check this actually because I was worried about them expelling it as well. I'm not sure if this was the exact article but this is what I found right now. I think the major concern is maintaining high O2 levels which I'm doing by pointing some power heads to the surface.

Responses to High Seawater Temperatures in Zooxanthellate Octocorals

Increases in Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) as a result of global warming have caused reef-building scleractinian corals to bleach worldwide, a result of the loss of obligate endosymbiotic zooxanthellae. Since the 1980’s, bleaching severity and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[CoralB]

How long did you raise the temp for ? And please keep posting any changes if any for about the next week . I’m very interested with this course of action !!!

 

[fohadi16]

How long did you raise the temp for ? And please keep posting any changes if any for about the next week . I’m very interested with this course of action !!!

So far it has only been 3 days. I will!

 

[fohadi16]

So a little update:
Firstly on temp: I use a fan hooked up to a temp regulator to keep the tank cold (i live in florida), my original setting pre treatment was startup at 79, stop at 78. So 1 degree fluctuation. When I began treatment I set it to startup at 83 and stop at 80. This was not good. My kenya tree hated it as well as acro. Yesterday morning I changed it to startup at 83 and stop at 82, back to my 1 degree fluctuation and everything is doing fine again.
Yesterday the sand was still a little brown but almost completely dino free. All livestock doing well.
Today: sand is almost completely white, all corals seem happy, stylo was closed when I woke up this morning but it seems to have perked up. The amount of Dinos on my LR is reduced tremendously. No more dino growth near coral frags. This is the first time I have not seen a single patch of bubbly sand in my tank in over a month. CUC is doing amazing they are no longer lethargic, my ceriths laid more eggs and my fire shrimp is running around everywhere looking for scraps. During the peak of the outbreak he wouldnt move from the LR and would constantly stay clinged to it.

 

[fohadi16]

Last night I also saw some copeopods running around. First time I had ever seen them in this tank, but they are very welcome as they eat dinos.
As for dosing, Im still dosing microbacter clean and microbacter 7. I stopped dosing Silicates because I have noticed some diatom growth on the sand and LR. I will continue this temp and dosing schedule until the bottles of mb7 and mbclean are finished.
For lighting I ran only blues for the past 2 days and today I switched back to 80% blue 20% white.

 

[CoralB]

Thanks for the update !!!

 

[fohadi16]

Thanks for the update !!!

No worries mate, the only concern I currently have is that my Female clown had white stringy poop today. Showing no other signs of illness and has a healthy appetite but i saw the stringy poop. I am keeping an eye out as the increased temps are also really good for a lot of pathogenic microbes.

 

[fohadi16]

Thanks for the update !!!

I am currently looking into making some media to grow dinos in a petridish of some sort and conducting experiments to either validate or invalidate the current hypothesis, i will most likely allow the dino to take over the dish then begin introducing bacteria to the dish and raising temps to see what effects it would have. I can tag you in the thread whenever I post it if you would like.

 

[CoralB]

I am currently looking into making some media to grow dinos in a petridish of some sort and conducting experiments to either validate or invalidate the current hypothesis, i will most likely allow the dino to take over the dish then begin introducing bacteria to the dish and raising temps to see what effects it would have. I can tag you in the thread whenever I post it if you would like.

Please do ! This hobby just a short time ago didn’t have the answers we have today to be successful . The more people like you take it upon themselves to learn and share more successful new info the better we all can be at this incredible hobby / lifestyle . Kudos ! And look forward to your results

 

[fohadi16]

Final update for now: Sand bed is beautiful and sparkly again. I just did my first water change in 2 weeks, fish and corals seem to like that. The dino that was growing on my powerhead is almost completely gone. I brought tank Temps down to 80 and will keep it here for a bit. Will keep you guys updated if they return (I'm in this constant state of worry that they will be back when I wake up, everyday). Thank you all for following along and sharing ideas!

 

[Reefahholic]

Both Dino groups on Facebook have not found this to be an effective method or repeatable in cases where people claimed success. Jake Adams put out an article about it and there’s been many others.

Is This the Dinoflagellate Treatment We’ve all been Hoping for? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Being a reef aquarists, means dealing with nuisance algae, parasites, and other pests… Cyanobacteria, AEFW, Red Bugs, and who here remembers that pink cotton candy algae (Callithamnion)?

reefbuilders.com

 

[fohadi16]

Both Dino groups on Facebook have not found this to be an effective method or repeatable in cases where people claimed success. Jake Adams put out an article about it and there’s been many others.

Is This the Dinoflagellate Treatment We’ve all been Hoping for? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Being a reef aquarists, means dealing with nuisance algae, parasites, and other pests… Cyanobacteria, AEFW, Red Bugs, and who here remembers that pink cotton candy algae (Callithamnion)?

reefbuilders.com

Hello! I'm confused isn't that article stating that it worked? Regardless thank you for the article it was a good read. I'm just hoping to find a method that works against this annoying snot. Thought I would share what I was trying with the rest of the community. Hopefully it stays gone and we can look to replicate it in a lab setting to get some answers!

 

[Reefahholic]

Hello! I'm confused isn't that article stating that it worked? Regardless thank you for the article it was a good read. I'm just hoping to find a method that works against this annoying snot. Thought I would share what I was trying with the rest of the community. Hopefully it stays gone and we can look to replicate it in a lab setting to get some answers!

Yes the article says it works, but the real pro’s who run the two big Dinoflagellate Facebook groups say it doesn’t work. They literally help hundreds of people each month.

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[Reefahholic]

@saltyhog