Predator reef

[Scott Muncy]

I'm wanting to try something new. I've never had any predatory fish due to corals. I've been told that you can mix some corals with certain predators. Any and all input would greatly be appreciated

 

[ScottR]

I'm wanting to try something new. I've never had any predatory fish due to corals. I've been told that you can mix some corals with certain predators. Any and all input would greatly be appreciated

What do you have currently, coral-wise (roughly)? And what do you intend to keep? Fish, eels, mantis, etc.?

 

[Scott Muncy]

What do you have currently, coral-wise (roughly)? And what do you intend to keep? Fish, eels, mantis, etc.?

I'm going to start a new tank up. I know I want a dwarf lion fish, toby puffer, harlequin tusk, snowflake eel maybe a couple of different tangs and a trigger of some kind that's just off the top of my head haha. Any corals safe in that mix?

 

[ScottR]

I'm going to start a new tank up. I know I want a dwarf lion fish, toby puffer, harlequin tusk, snowflake eel maybe a couple of different tangs and a trigger of some kind that's just off the top of my head haha. Any corals safe in that mix?

How many gallons will it be? Keep in mind eels may eat your fish. I’ve seen predator threads on here before. And I’ve seen them fail. In my opinion, they added everything too closely at the same time. My advice would be to add livestock slowly. Make sure your tank is well-established and your husbandry is sharp. Each animal has a specific diet and needs to be fed accordingly. Please research each animal before buying.

Sometimes we try to take different animals that come from different environments and try to replicate their home and hope they coexist.

 

[Shelton O Neale]

I concur please be mindful of the needs for all these fish some needs a lot of personal space and small spaces will increase their aggression. All corals are at risk with aggressive fish as their aggression is not only towards fish alone but corals as well. We can get away with keeping some hard corals but it's is always a risk. A hungry man is an angry man and it is the same with fish.

 

[lion king]

Many predators go well in a reef, most don't bother your corals, your clean up crew will likely be on the menu for some. I run some tanks without cuc, they are not 100% necessary. Or you can replace them from to time, it's not that expensive and it gives your fish something to do. To include most of the fish you like I would say 125g is the minimum tank size you would want, any smaller and would want to make adjustments.

Tangs are reef safe and the smaller ones like a zebrasoma or bristletooths go well in small 6 foot tank. The purple tang is arguably the prettiest, but can get pretty aggressive. The harlequin tusk looks menacing but is actually a pussycat except towards some other wrasses, he will definitely hunt down your cuc though. The snowflake eel will cause no threat to any of the other fish you've chosen.

Let's talk triggers, stick with the xanthichthys genus for best success, the bluejaw being the most available and affordable, although I have heard stories of even these munching from time to time. Any other triggers you will have to value the fish more than your corals, regardless of what else you read I have only seen success with other triggers to be short lived, and any real success in very large tanks.

If you are serious about a dwarf lion, if you want to keep him alive more than year, keep in him an observation tank and get him eating a variety of dead foods before placing him in the dt. Target feeding chunks of meaty food will be necessary to keep this guy long term. Any shrimp will be an instant expensive meal. Read through this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/an-arguement-for-feeding-live-foods.582822/

The toby puffer, a notorious nipper, he will likely munch on your corals, and I would never put one in with my lions.

 

[Scott Muncy]

Many predators go well in a reef, most don't bother your corals, you clean up crew will likely be on the menu for some. I run some tangs without cuc, they are not 100% necessary. Or you can replace them from to time, it's not that expensive and it gives your fish something to do. To include most of the fish you like I would say 125g is the minimum tank size you would want, any smaller and would want to make adjustments.

Tangs are reef safe and the smaller ones like a zebrasoma or bristletooths go well in small 6 foot tank. The purple tang is arguably the prettiest, but can get pretty aggressive. The harlequin tusk looks menacing but is actually a pussycat except towards some other wrasses, he will definitely hunt down your cuc though. The snowflake eel will cause no threat to any of the other fish you've chosen.

Let's talk triggers, stick with the xanthichthys genus for best success, the bluejaw being the most available and affordable, although I have heard stories of even these munching from time to time. Any other triggers you will have to value the fish more than your corals, regardless of what else you read I have only seen success with other triggers to be short lived, and any real success in very large tanks.

If you are serious about a dwarf lion, if you want to keep him alive more than year, keep in him an observation tank and get him eating a variety of dead foods before placing him in the dt. Target feeding chunks of meaty food will be necessary to keep this guy long term. Any shrimp will be an instant expensive meal. Read through this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/an-arguement-for-feeding-live-foods.582822/

The toby puffer, a notorious nipper, he will likely munch on your corals, and I would never put one in with my lions.

My tank is 5 feet long and 100 gallons that I currently have to set up. What adjustments do I need to remove. I think I'll skip the lion fish for sure. Or maybe I'll pick p a 55 gallon tank for quarantine

 

[lion king]

I would stick with the snowflake eel and the bristletooth tangs. The kole would likely be the best choice with the snowflake, or make sure the tomini is a very good size. The other bristletooths can be finicky and do require a bit more attention to get them eating, and an established tank may be necessary. Pushing it you may get away with a scopas tang, but because of aggression I wouldn't do a purple, i don't have experience with the yellow to give advice one way or another. My scopas does seem happy utilizing a relative small area in my 210g, and pics don't do these guys justice.

I would say any trigger is out, and I like a larger tank for a harlequin tusk, you may want to look into other wrasses. The toby puffer does fit the tank size but I really don't like these guys in a reef. The dwarf lion would also be happy with size tank, but as I stated the feeding requirements really does need to addressed for long term success. The snowflake eel also takes some additional attention with feeding requirements.

 

[Scott Muncy]

I would stick with the snowflake eel and the bristletooth tangs. The kole would likely be the best choice with the snowflake, or make sure the tomini is a very good size. The other bristletooths can be finicky and do require a bit more attention to get them eating, and an established tank may be necessary. Pushing it you may get away with a scopas tang, but because of aggression I wouldn't do a purple, i don't have experience with the yellow to give advice one way or another. My scopas does seem happy utilizing a relative small area in my 210g, and pics don't do these guys justice.

I would say any trigger is out, and I like a larger tank for a harlequin tusk, you may want to look into other wrasses. The toby puffer does fit the tank size but I really don't like these guys in a reef. The dwarf lion would also be happy with size tank, but as I stated the feeding requirements really does need to addressed for long term success. The snowflake eel also takes some additional attention with feeding requirements.

I have homework for sure. Thanks everyone for their tips

 

[Hitman]

The puffer and depending on what Trigger you get will nip at corals as that how they grind their teeth down as they grow. Everything else stated above is solid advise.

 

[Scott Muncy]

I have another idea to run by yall. Are there any more predator type fish safe to be with anemones?

 

[lion king]

Eels or lionfish won't bother anemones and will also be safe from anemones.

 

[Scott Muncy]

Eels or lionfish won't bother anemones and will also be safe from anemones.

Will they bother clowns??

 

[lion king]

That's a bit more complicated. The snowflake eel you are interested in does go quite well in a community tank. Some things to consider, choice a smaller size eel and get him eating dead food really well from a stick or tongs, and keep his feeding schedule consistent. The snowflake eel is also a pebbletooth eel which means his natural choice in foods would be crustaceans not fish. In the rare occasions you've heard of the snowflakes eating fish there are many negative factors that would have led to that, it's not a normal or common occurrence. A large hungry snowflake right from the ocean might eat some itty bitty clowns. Choose a smaller eel and clowns too large for him to eat, train the eel well to eat dead food from a stick, and keep him on a consistent feeding schedule, and you will be fine.

Now the lionfish is another story, my passion is lionfish and I never recommend a lionfish for a clown tank. The lionfish always dies in a short amount of time, i suspect from the challenges of feeding. It can be done but there are challenges and complications. Sizing again is the most important thing, and be very dedicated to properly feeding the lion.

 

[ScottR]

Predator tanks sound so cool but obviously require lots of research, work and husbandry.

I had a snowflake eel in a tank with fish (this was almost 20 years ago or so). The eel ate frozen fish chunks and never bothered the fish. But it stayed hidden in the rocks. It’d poke out its head often but I rarely saw it swim around. I loved the eel but it wasn’t the star of the tank.

 

[McPuff]

I think you'll find that many fish are hit and miss when it comes to being "reef safe." The more important issue is how well the fish can co-habitate with one another. For example, I've got a humu trigger in my 40 gal lagoon (plumbed to system) which houses all manner of LPS, SPS, softies and he doesn't touch any of those. Inverts are not an option as he will eat them as soon as possible. I also feel quite confident that he would kill just about any fish I may add, depending on size. So he seems to be "reef safe" but not invert safe and probably not fish safe in this small container. :0) Were I to add him to my 300 DT, I think he'd fine fine with respect to the other fish. Inverts would still be dinner and I'm confident the corals would all be fine.

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to pick predators that remain small-ish and are mildly aggressive at most. Add them when they are as small as possible and with the most aggressive species going in last.

 

[lion king]

I think you'll find that many fish are hit and miss when it comes to being "reef safe." The more important issue is how well the fish can co-habitate with one another. For example, I've got a humu trigger in my 40 gal lagoon (plumbed to system) which houses all manner of LPS, SPS, softies and he doesn't touch any of those. Inverts are not an option as he will eat them as soon as possible. I also feel quite confident that he would kill just about any fish I may add, depending on size. So he seems to be "reef safe" but not invert safe and probably not fish safe in this small container. :0) Were I to add him to my 300 DT, I think he'd fine fine with respect to the other fish. Inverts would still be dinner and I'm confident the corals would all be fine.

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to pick predators that remain small-ish and are mildly aggressive at most. Add them when they are as small as possible and with the most aggressive species going in last.

@McPuff This is a common response and a common misconception. Since your humu is in a small 40g at the moment, I would suspect he is quite small. I've seen many smaller triggers of many varieties; humu, clown, niger, and others kept for a while successfully in reefs. But when they get more mature their temperament and attitude changes. When that humu gets to 5" or even less, I would take a bet that you would start to see some destruction. The point is would it dissuade you from choosing the fish over the corals. The 330 is a good size that cold prove to be successful for a very long time.

These are kind of reports give some hobbyist the idea that triggers are reef safe. For the most part they just are not, most every situation I've seen turns at some point, sometimes 2-3 years later. I had a personal friend that kept a clown trigger in his 220g reef as a model citizen for over 2 years, he caused about a $1000 of damage before he got him out. Each fish is different but if you consider percentages, in the long run it's well over 90% chance that these triggers will cause some kind of damage to your corals. Some can be minimal or are with corals the reefer doesn't mind, they put up with or the reef is large enough to take the damage. And sadly too many reefers just won't own up to it, especially if they had been warned ahead of time. I had warned my friend and caught him lying about the clown trigger situation.

The op has a 100g which in the long is too small for any trigger.

 

[McPuff]

@lion king I understand all of what you have written and agree with it as well. I'm not suggesting the OP buy a lagoon trigger by any means, not am I suggesting they are even remotely reef safe. Just sharing my experience up to now. I am definitely not one of those "I've got one and it's totally perfect so it must be fine for every" type of people. Quite the opposite in fact. If and when the humu starts to munch on my corals I'll report it to the community as I know it's a gamble. But I love triggers and haven't had one in about 15 years. Right now it's fairly small (3"). It DOES move frags at times... triggers love to move things around and they'll decide certain things aren't supposed to be in their territory. This is probably what drives a lot of their destructive behavior. Honestly, it's part of what makes them so appealing, their attitude. Again, I have suggested the OP start small, try to keep only smaller species, and add appropriately. Most triggers are NOT reef safe. But there are people willing to take the risk (like me). It's a trade-off and each person has to decide if they're willing to make that decision. This is why I have not and will not add my humu to the DT. He goes nuts in the lagoon, I can easily remove him. NOT so easy in the DT. Doing so with a CLOWN TRIGGER... your friend is nuts. :0)

So, I did not intend to represent a misconception. Rhinecanthus and many other trigger species will go nuts at some point. But not all "reef safe" fish are actually reef safe. Some fish are just nuts. Niger triggers, pink tails can also be awful in reefs but most people will tell you they're reef safe. Tangs can eat zoanthids. Rabbits will eat softies, LPS, and zoas. But it does depend on the size of the system. If the system is large enough, you'll mitigate against a lot of the potential damage that those fishes can inflict. Anyway, that's all I was trying to show. I've kept saltwater fishes for about 25 years and have made many mistakes along the way. I've shared a number of stories from my past bad decisions. Having learned from those experiences myself, I hope that others will too.

To be more clear, I would be very careful about what predators I put into a 100 gallon reef. Unless you care more about the fish than the corals, that would likely mean avoiding fish with teeth (i.e., tetraodontiformes like puffers, triggers, and many filefish).