Pressure on False Claim Products

[jft]

This reef keeping and aquarium industry is Overhyped on MOST products and Gullible and often unsuspecting people have to often find out the Hard way when the products Fail due to Wild exhorbitant Claims. Been Keeping all Aquatic and reef setups since the 1980 s so I have seen more than my share of BS Products. You really need KNOWLEDGE and Not waste of Money Products, IMO.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Being technically correct isn't enough. The elements of deceptive advertising include analyzing both whether the statements were deceptive or had the potential to deceive the average consumer.

I don't trust Seachem at all. Their marketing claims are ridiculous and every time one of their products is subject to any sort of scientific test it fails.

Yeah, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a central organization that represents reefers. The industry is well represented with marketing to sell their products though. But as long as we keep buying the products, they will keep making them.

 

[Nonya]

I use their Reef Trace. My corals seem to love it. Of course, that's not proof, just anecdotal.

 

[Dan_P]

It seems that unless every additive/supplement is independently analyzed, how are we to trust they provide even close to what they state?

You could come at the question a different way. Start my assuming no additive is needed to maintain an aquarium. For anything you want to add, no matter the reason, ask “how solid is the evidence that it is needed”. Based on what we know today, this list is fairly short:

Food for the creatures you keep
Minerals for some creatures, e.g., Ca++
Some trace elements

The actual list might be a little longer

 

[Nonya]

You could come at the question a different way. Start my assuming no additive is needed to maintain an aquarium. For anything you want to add, no matter the reason, ask “how solid is the evidence that it is needed”. Based on what we know today, this list is fairly short:

Food for the creatures you keep
Minerals for some creatures, e.g., Ca++
Some trace elements

The actual list might be a little longer

I haven't done water changes in 5 years. I add trace elements, Ca, Alk and Mg according to Randy's recipe regularly and send a water sample in every 6 months to see how I'm doing on the traces.

 

[Dan_P]

I haven't done water changes in 5 years. I add trace elements, Ca, Alk and Mg according to Randy's recipe regularly and send a water sample in every 6 months to see how I'm doing on the traces.

Sounds like you haven’t succumbed to the additive temptation.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Well, Seachem has stooped to a new low in misinformation and ignorance. Here is their response:

Support FD (Seachem Laboratories) Dec 6, 2023, 17:41 AST Hello! Thank you for the email. The hydroxide blend in Balance will bind up acid sources in the tank, thus raising the pH. It also interacts with the carbonate and converts it to bicarbonate. Ultimately, it does not raise alkalinity, but rather is re-organizing the balance of the existing buffers". Best regards, FD

Maybe they use ChatGPT to answer customer questions?

 

[Nonya]

Sounds like you haven’t succumbed to the additive temptation.

I thought I just demonstrated that I have. BUT, I follow through with testing. Don't add if you don't test, right?

 

[Nonya]

Maybe they use ChatGPT to answer customer questions?

HA!

 

[Widdlyscudds]

I'm curious has anyone actually tested this product? Used it and tested for ph and alkalinity?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm curious has anyone actually tested this product? Used it and tested for ph and alkalinity?

The point is, if it contains the ingredients it claims to, their claims are chemically impossible.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Seachem response

 

[Widdlyscudds]

The point is, if it contains the ingredients it claims to, their claims are chemically impossible.

Yeah I get that, but I'm curious if they suck at making accurate labels or suck at making products. or both. If someone had used this particular product it would be fairly trivial to say what it is or isn't doing regardless of the label on it.

 

[JoJosReef]

I see Amazon is still selling Vibrant. That's one that's clearly not what it says it is. At least it's not on BRS.

 

[PapaFishRocks]

Ever since the prime issue a few years ago I’ve completely stopped believing anything Seachem claims about their products. Seems like nothing has changed

Not to get too sidetracked, but what was the Prime issue?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Not to get too sidetracked, but what was the Prime issue?

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

What about Fuel?
See lots of people swear by the aqua vitro fuel

I was given a bottle of this for free on black friday at an lfs in omaha. I am afraid to use it frankly

I already dose traces and carbon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I added this detailed accounting of the Aquavitro/Seachem product defense in this thread in the main forum so that a larger audience can appreciate it:

Do not rely on Seachem to decide what your reef needs

As part of an effort to rid the reefing world of false claim products, there is now a lengthy thread in the Chemistry forum where I am documenting efforts to put pressure on manufacturers and vendors to clean up their act. In some cases, the company responses are noteworthy and I don't want...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm curious has anyone actually tested this product? Used it and tested for ph and alkalinity?

I do not recall whether I have seen folks report on the use it. I fully expect it has in it what Aquavitro and Brightwell state since those ingredients are quite inexpensive, but I do not know that with any certainty.

They cannot, however, do what they claim. Regardless of anything that might be in the bottle, it cannot do what they claim (raise pH and not alk). No chemical or mix of chemicals in a bottle can do that. The fact that they both tell us what is in it, just makes it easier to prove the impossibility.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe they use ChatGPT to answer customer questions?

lol

You know, that would not surprise me. Maybe someone with current access to Chat GPT can ask it if hydroxide boosts alkalinity in seawater.