Prices going up again?

[Reefer Matt]

Cant wait until the Ecotech patents run dry. Only a few more years I've heard.

I think as long as they keep coming out with new versions, they get a new patent with them. Called an improvement patent. Probably why the companies keep making so many new versions. Not 100% on that, but it would make sense.

 

[rtparty]

They've been saying this for years.

Yep and it’s not going to run out. They will make a significant enough change to extend it another 15 years or whatever it is

China doesn’t care about patents anyway. If they could make them for cheaper, they would have 10 years ago. Truth is, they can’t.

 

[BeanAnimal]

This is my point. One large entity buys up the top selling and most popular brands then raise their prices solely because they can!

While that does sound reasonable, that is not how it works.

This is an extremely small niche market and these are all extremely small companies trying to compete in a space with many LARGE well positioned players, including big dogs like United Pet Group. Add in large independent and well established broad range product mainstays like RedSea and there is insane price pressure for a very small demographic.

Again, I don't think EcoTech is raking in the dough you folks think they are. They are listed a a 4.9 million revenue company with at least 23 employees. Do the math, I would venture to say that they are barely keeping their heads above water and the price increase is not greed, but a life preserver.

I would venture it is a safe bet that the steep markup on consumables and 3rd party retailed brands on the BRS side is what is keeping a good bit of the high ticket low volume sub-brands afloat.

 

[jimfish98]

Cant wait until the Ecotech patents run dry. Only a few more years I've heard.

Patents are typically good for 20 years but every few years Ecotech is evolving and it allows for a continuation of patent. Latest patent was in 2022 and was a continuation from their 2020 patent. They have done multiple continuations from their first patent in 2012.

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20220346356

 

[ReefED!]

Other factors??? You mean greed from the company who’s cornering the market and giving small lfs ridiculous wholesale prices that leave a tiny profit margin? I avoid this company like the plague!

It's not greed

None of these companies are swimming in profit margins and sailing around on yachts

Maybe a founder here or there

Everyone else is just trying to make payroll in this economy.

Most of us don't understand just how much money was printed in 2020-2021. Many of us probably never saw it, or saw very little.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Patents are typically good for 20 years but every few years Ecotech is evolving and it allows for a continuation of patent. Latest patent was in 2022 and was a continuation from their 2020 patent. They have done multiple continuations from their first patent in 2012.

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20220346356

Patents are somewhat useless unless you have deep enough pockets to defend them. Their patent is not likely deterring anybody large from entering the space and not going to prevent the China knock offs. The reality is that nobody wants to enter a space this small and already saturated with products. If any large enterprise wanted to they would infringe and laugh. The potential revenue stream is tiny and not worth the effort.

 

[Derrick0580]

Wholesale to retail on a xr30 is over $300 where are you getting your numbers from???

I wasn’t quoting the xr30 in that statement. I recently bought a filter roller and the lfs profit was $15.00

 

[BeanAnimal]

I wasn’t quoting the xr30 in that statement. I recently bought a filter roller and the lfs profit was $15.00

It depends on the Item. Your LFS may make 40% on some things and lose 5% on others. In gneral, small retail business need to make 20% average to break even. The problem is, even with 30% markup, shrink (theft, fraud returns, etc) eat away at that more than they ever have before. The price of rent, utilities, leases, etc. are all rising, but retail price increases only cover a fraction of it. Prices go up and sales drop, making the issue even worse.

The wholesaler is in the same boat.

 

[Genvid]

I think this hobby is expensive, I also thought that $1000 for a lamp was expensive, and then I bought two corals for $520 each and oh my God, I thought if I don’t have these lamps, the corals will die. That's why I now have both radions and kessils, I'm probably stupid

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think this hobby is expensive, I also thought that $1000 for a lamp was expensive, and then I bought two corals for $520 each and oh my God, I thought if I don’t have these lamps, the corals will die. That's why I now have both radions and kessils, I'm probably stupid

It can be done on a shoestring, but yes for most people it is an expensive hobby.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

 

[shwareefer]

My LFS has a 20% off sale storewide* for their anniversary. *excludes MAP products. I hate MAP pricing - in any other scenario price fixing across an entire market would be called collusion.

 

[rtparty]

My LFS has a 20% off sale storewide* for their anniversary. *excludes MAP products. I hate MAP pricing - in any other scenario price fixing across an entire market would be called collusion.

You mean like gasoline, TVs, cell phones, and many other areas?

MAP doesn’t stop your LFS from selling at a lower cost. They certainly can if they really want and I know of many that do. Just have to work it in person with them

 

[shwareefer]

You mean like gasoline, TVs, cell phones, and many other areas?

No I don't mean like any of those things.

 

[bshonesy]

Unfortunately I’ve lost enough money in fish in the last 2 years that I am biting the bullet and getting vortechs so there are no cords in my tank and my jump guard will sit flat to the top of the tank. Had a custom acrylic lid but fish still always managed to find a way to the floor. I despise mobius soo much that if another company had a similar wave maker with no cords in the tank I would pay more for their product, but alas no such company exists!

I’ve wondered why these are the only products that have the cord and motor on the outside. Is it a patent thing maybe? I have two 40s, but I’d love to get a couple smaller heads just to kindof get some more flow towards the bottom for detritus etc, but I have no cords now so I hate to start adding cords. Just not worth it for a nice to have to get the mp-10s. I wish someone made a less expensive one, even if the flow was so-so it would be good for some purposes.

 

[rtparty]

I’ve wondered why these are the only products that have the cord and motor on the outside. Is it a patent thing maybe? I have two 40s, but I’d love to get a couple smaller heads just to kindof get some more flow towards the bottom for detritus etc, but I have no cords now so I hate to start adding cords. Just not worth it for a nice to have to get the mp-10s. I wish someone made a less expensive one, even if the flow was so-so it would be good for some purposes.

Yes, it’s a patent thing

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, it’s a patent thing

And an illustration of how small the market actually is. It is not worth anybody infringing…

 

[KalamazooReefer]

There are so many great points in this thread. And I'm glad to see that the line between marketing and hobbyist is starting to come into focus.

Hobbyist definitely need to try and unify and hold strong to our values as hobbyist. Shake our heads and rid ourselves from the trance we've been in... hypnotized by marketing "success can only be achieved by spending more".

So many times, we hobbyist are participating in practices that are in direct contradiction of our own values, desires and needs. WHY?

Great post. I think the new BRS season of “52 Weeks of Reefing” really spotlights the extent to which they’ve strayed from their roots. Just compare it to the first season. It couldn’t be more different. Season 2 is a constant showcase of incredibly expensive tanks, with every possible piece of expensive equipment they can cram onto/into them, leading potential new hobbyists to believe that you require all of these things to run a successful reef aquarium. I was stunned when I realized that the tone/style of Season 2 was going to be this way. I figured it would be much like Season 1, helping new reefkeepers understand how pillars of reefkeeping work, and simply applying the new knowledge gained in previous years of research and experimentation. But now it’s clear - that is not at all their primary aim now.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Great post. I think the new BRS season of “52 Weeks of Reefing” really spotlights the extent to which they’ve strayed from their roots. Just compare it to the first season. It couldn’t be more different. Season 2 is a constant showcase of incredibly expensive tanks, with every possible piece of expensive equipment they can cram onto/into them, leading potential new hobbyists to believe that you require all of these things to run a successful reef aquarium. I was stunned when I realized that the tone/style of Season 2 was going to be this way. I figured it would be much like Season 1, helping new reefkeepers understand how pillars of reefkeeping work, and simply applying the new knowledge gained in previous years of research and experimentation. But now it’s clear - that is not at all their primary aim now.

I've concluded that about season 1. And wonder if our opinion is based on our experience at the time we become aware of the videos.

if everything you're watching is a new concept, it's easy to accept what is being said as factual. Especially the way they cleverly introduce particular concepts and approaches as undisputed truth.

After we get some experience under our belt we can easily pick out what is conjecture and what is not.

 

[rtparty]

They’re not even 10 weeks in and just showing off each tank and what the plans are. Ryan has said in multiple videos that everything isn’t needed and it’s just how they’ve decided to run these tanks. Future episodes will go into the science of everything like Season 1 did.

Can anyone seriously say Season 1 was a cheap setup???? :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing: :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing: :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

It’s amazing watching people cherry pick info to fit their narrative when attacking companies.