Problem with Cycle need some advice

[nightmarepl]

hey guys, so i ran into alittle problem cant figure out what to really do, so ive been cycling my 75g tank for about a 5-6 weeks now i started off with live sand, dry rock, matrix media and added some live bacteria into the tank from bio spira the tank was cycling okayish " no light on the tank only from the windows " looked like the tank cycled cause the ammonia was almost gone roughly .5 ppm and the nitrate was .10 ppm i was adviced to throw in a frozen piece of shrimp into the tank to help cycle it so i did that the shrimp went under my rocks i guess cause i couldnt find it after wards. i tested the water after 2 weeks of the shrimp and my ammonia is 4.0 ppm but my nitrate is 0 ppm atm... nothing is growing rocks are clean sand is clean just high ammonia.

should i do a water change of 10g? and add some carton to start cleaning it or add maybe prime?

 

[Dbichler]

If you added bio spira you should have been cycled after a week since your at 5-6 weeks you definitely have enough bacteria in there. I would do a 100% water change and put one fish in.

 

[nightmarepl]

If you added bio spira you should have been cycled after a week since your at 5-6 weeks you definitely have enough bacteria in there. I would do a 100% water change and put one fish in.

100% water change? thats alittle crazy dont have that much water on hand.

 

[Timfish]

For starters I do not understand this notion of cycling reefs with no lights. Lighting is an ESSENTIAL component of a reef system and ALL the biomass is growing and adjusting to the level set for the system. Change the intensity and or spectrum and changes are forced on all the life in the system. Some will be minor and some are likely to be major. Whatrever your plans for lighting are you should set that from the getgo and not change it. Once your lighting choices have been made the light field you've established in your tank should be a major determining factor in what corals you will add.

On to your ammonia test. I would seriously question your test kit, get a differnet test kit. Only way to stop a cycle is to sterilize a system. If it was my tank I would start water changes (I like small weekly ~5% - ~10%). I would also get some wild or maricultured live rock as it's the best source for sponges and other bacteria that can't be cultured and stuck in a bottle that are essential for healthy reefs.

Here's Aquabiomics artilce on live rock.

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.

www.reef2reef.com

Here's some videos you might find informative:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[brandon429]

on small tanks we do the full change to ease headaches because we know they'll keep believing the test kit even if its misreading, they'll dig in heels at all cost. the full water change makes it go down to .25


admit thats a funny elitist cycler's joke Tim

for your large reef do these two tricks: post a full tank shot, so we can see surface area ratios

and also, have you added prime at any step here

also, post the pic of the actual test reading on the card in white clean light.

I predict your ammonia is fine, runs in the thousandth's ppm nh3 (total ammonia is misleading here) and that seneye is not the ammonia measure being used here, its api or red sea before TAN conversion.

 

[nightmarepl]

on small tanks we do the full change to ease headaches because we know they'll keep believing the test kit even if its misreading, they'll dig in heels at all cost. the full water change makes it go down to .25


admit thats a funny elitist cycler's joke Tim

for your large reef do these two tricks: post a full tank shot, so we can see surface area ratios

and also, have you added prime at any step here

also, post the pic of the actual test reading on the card in white clean light.

I predict your ammonia is fine, runs in the thousandth's ppm nh3 (total ammonia is misleading here) and that seneye is not the ammonia measure being used here, its api or red sea before TAN conversion.

its an ipa test kit
ill take some pictures when i get home i currently dont have the lights there being shipped taking ages...

 

[brandon429]

what about prime use, have you added any form of water conditioner

 

[Aqua Man]

was adviced to throw in a frozen piece of shrimp into the tank to help cycle it so i did that the shrimp went under my rocks

How big was the shrimp? Large water change is to lower nitrogen levels after cycle is complete. Algae loves nitrates!

I also would turn on the lights. Just ramp them up slowly if possible. Algae is going to grow. Might as well get it over with now!

 

[brandon429]

The #1 running tenet in this thread below of 100 reefs falsely concerned about ammonia is that non digital ammonia testing has caused millions of dollars of false bottle bac sales, quadruple the amount needed, and since the writers of major cycle procedure also sell bottle bac we dont get the information given to us that at one month's time, no boosted cycle arrangement has ever, ever stalled.


in fact we get the opposite



go to youtube, put in "macna video reef tank cycling"

right there is stall, stall stall training. whomever was stalled here below though:

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

There's no way a biospira reef with sand and rock and five weeks isn't cycled, we simply have non seneye data again. even if you dont do a water change its cycled and a degrading shrimp does not overcome the biofilter, metabolites cause those type of misreads on non seneye kits.

 

[Vested]

what about prime use, have you added any form of water conditioner

Lol might have to start asking that question a lot more now after reading that ammonia thread. Current theory is that prime neutralizes the testing chemical right?

 

[brandon429]

Vested its that prime causes misreads


the reason we aren't doubting ammonia is due to the bacterial sourcing and # of days stated to be underwater and stewing.

here's what biospira can do on day 1, is this more work than a degrading shrimp or what

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

consider this reef here today, its five weeks and waiting. that all above was day one, see how long the reef lasts? its still going.

the OP's tank is fully cycled and even if he didn't add prime, this isn't seneye data. Res publica was trained on old cycling science, they'll never let go of color compare tube kit results. those run our world, the teachers made it that way.

once we start getting side by side seneye readings on these suspect cycles compared to the other kits, cycling will evolve even quicker than current rates. current rates are trust me reports, by studying other seneye + bottle bac threads. the public needs to see the dynamic in person to really buy in that cycles cannot stall given this long, he's met the full demands of a common cycling chart. no cycling charts range in dates or completion times, even the ones from books from the fifties match the google search returns.

 

[nightmarepl]

what about prime use, have you added any form of water conditioner

no i havent

 

[nightmarepl]

Vested its that prime causes misreads


the reason we aren't doubting ammonia is due to the bacterial sourcing and # of days stated to be underwater and stewing.

here's what biospira can do on day 1, is this more work than a degrading shrimp or what

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

consider this reef here today, its five weeks and waiting. that all above was day one, see how long the reef lasts? its still going.

the OP's tank is fully cycled and even if he didn't add prime, this isn't seneye data. Res publica was trained on old cycling science, they'll never let go of color compare tube kit results. those run our world, the teachers made it that way.

once we start getting side by side seneye readings on these suspect cycles compared to the other kits, cycling will evolve even quicker than current rates. current rates are trust me reports, by studying other seneye + bottle bac threads. the public needs to see the dynamic in person to really buy in that cycles cannot stall given this long, he's met the full demands of a common cycling chart. no cycling charts range in dates or completion times, even the ones from books from the fifties match the google search returns.

think maybe the test kit is out dated or expired maybe the date is faded on it cant really tell seeing a 4.0 literally dark green on the ipa scared me i havent added the lights cause they havent shipped to me yet.

 

[Dbichler]

100% water change? thats alittle crazy dont have that much water on hand.

I would do 2 as large as you can then in my experience tanks have less issues if started with fresh water. It’s a pain but worth it in the end took me 3 days on my 210. Much easier when I had a 29 bio cube.

 

[brandon429]

that is indeed the universal fix. if it wont be considered link bombardment/too late this at least shows a stuck cycle, a full water change, then a reef darn fast after plus you can track it out a year until fish disease wipes it out. its directly relevant and supports total water changes for stuck cycles that's for sure:

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

dont glance lightly at that post, its one of the most important cycling threads one will come across. Its like walking in a paleo park and for the first time you look down and find a fossilized vertebra with full dna inside it.

one full water change resets ANY questionable cycle to fully ready and working. cycle teachers withheld that,
convenient.

 

[nightmarepl]

ill do about 30 gallon water change hopefully tonight and see where that puts me should i add carbon?

 

[Dbichler]

No need for carbon unless you have really cloudy water. I personally never run carbon.

 

[brandon429]

and remember, you don't have a way to actually know where the water change puts you.

you are not using digital ammonia assessment, so your kit will still follow these outcomes below

search on google: "stalled reef tank cycle"
notice twenty thousand pages of search returns.


100% of those aren't stalled.

100% of those aren't using digital ammonia proofing.

your tank isn't using digital ammonia proofing, see the tie in

I'll paypal a 25$ bounty right now to any seneye owner who can meet these proofs, the first one posting for the bounty:

-your seneye must be able to indicate .002-.009 range nh3 on a fully working display reef with corals and fish, the calibration step is this range for the meter.

-use the same meter and slide to show a reef of water, rocks and sand and biospira added and feed not ready on day 30. add some ammonia, let's see if it sticks at .1 ppm on a seneye.


-show me any reef in history that once passes that test above, gets uncycled by having feed withheld in a common home aquarium. Using seneye, show me proof of one single starved cycle in history and I'll pay up $25 paypal live time to the first poster. I've got to leave room for Dan somehow pulling off the experiment with his seneye; never bait a chemist with chemistry.

What you find after doing a 30% water change won't alter those outcomes

 

[brandon429]

put down the ammonia test, add fish and begin reefing after the water change.

now thats proof, as it runs normally day by day.

(click into any single post for a stuck cycle on twenty thousand google pages, they all had running fish, clean water, and weeks /months of waste processing already in place while posting)

you'll want to select pre quarantined fish when you begin.

 

[nightmarepl]

and remember, you don't have a way to actually know where the water change puts you.

you are not using digital ammonia assessment, so your kit will still follow these outcomes below

search on google: "stalled reef tank cycle"
notice twenty thousand pages of search returns.


100% of those aren't stalled.

100% of those aren't using digital ammonia proofing.

your tank isn't using digital ammonia proofing, see the tie in

I'll paypal a 25$ bounty right now to any seneye owner who can meet these proofs, the first one posting for the bounty:

-your seneye must be able to indicate .002-.009 range nh3 on a fully working display reef with corals and fish, the calibration step is this range for the meter.

-use the same meter and slide to show a reef of water, rocks and sand and biospira added and feed not ready on day 30. add some ammonia, let's see if it sticks at .1 ppm on a seneye.


-show me any reef in history that once passes that test above, gets uncycled by having feed withheld in a common home aquarium. Using seneye, show me proof of one single starved cycle in history and I'll pay up $25 paypal live time to the poster.

What you find after doing a 30% water change won't alter those outcomes, it'll be part of the non digital testing set which never line up with digital testing when we run them side by side, on the same tank.

so what should i actually do at this point