Problem with my 38 gallon

[Boundava]

I have a 38 gallon which had a Neovespicula depressifrons, 2 clowns, a possum wrasse and a diamond goby along with an assortment of corals and snails.
The Neovespicula depressifrons was about 4 years old and died late July- his body wasn't immediately noticeable due to the live rock and coral. For those that don't know he was venomous. A day after he was missing the other fish all died and as I was pulling them out I found the depressifrons body.
Thinking that the venom is what killed the other fish I did a 90% water change on the tank, cleaned the filter out, rinsed all of the live rock in buckets of new saltwater and refilled the tank with new saltwater. Unfortunately I was a unable to empty all of the water as I have a reverse flow undergravel filter in the tank. I also added carbon to my filter and let the tank run for 2 weeks and then replaced the carbon with a zeolite-carbon blend.
After waiting until early October, I added a test molly to the tank. I acclimated it for 2 hours and it seemed fine, it was swimming around happily in the tank but was nowhere to be seen the next day.

Now while I did the water change I pulled out a piece of rock that had some mushroom corals on it and moved it to my 13 gallon tank which has a leaf fish in it. The rock did nothing to the water quality and the leaf fish was fine and has been fine for the month with the rock.

So I'm hesitant to add anything to this tank. It seems that no fish can go in here again unless I break the whole thing down. I'm not sure why, as the corals and the snails and my brittle sea star are all thriving.

Someone suggested that I possibly didn't acclimate the Molly long enough, as they should be acclimated overnight? The Molly was very happy when I was putting it in the saltwater tank, it didn't seem distressed at all and I watched it for about an hour because it is in a room where I can sit and watch it.

Anyone have any suggestions? It's really hard to try to put a $50-100 fish in the tank just to test it out. My only other option is to find a place to stick the corals while I break down the tank again. Possibly bleach it out, and I'm not sure what to do with the filter. It has a Fluval 307 canister along with the reverse flow under gravel. If I redo the tank I will be removing the undergravel. I'm also unsure whether or not the venom is somehow in the tank and if it adhears the plastics because then I would have to trash my current maker as well.

Anyone dealt with this before or have any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AmazingYocool]

I have a 38 gallon which had a Neovespicula depressifrons, 2 clowns, a possum wrasse and a diamond goby along with an assortment of corals and snails.
The Neovespicula depressifrons was about 4 years old and died late July- his body wasn't immediately noticeable due to the live rock and coral. For those that don't know he was venomous. A day after he was missing the other fish all died and as I was pulling them out I found the depressifrons body.
Thinking that the venom is what killed the other fish I did a 90% water change on the tank, cleaned the filter out, rinsed all of the live rock in buckets of new saltwater and refilled the tank with new saltwater. Unfortunately I was a unable to empty all of the water as I have a reverse flow undergravel filter in the tank. I also added carbon to my filter and let the tank run for 2 weeks and then replaced the carbon with a zeolite-carbon blend.
After waiting until early October, I added a test molly to the tank. I acclimated it for 2 hours and it seemed fine, it was swimming around happily in the tank but was nowhere to be seen the next day.

Now while I did the water change I pulled out a piece of rock that had some mushroom corals on it and moved it to my 13 gallon tank which has a leaf fish in it. The rock did nothing to the water quality and the leaf fish was fine and has been fine for the month with the rock.

So I'm hesitant to add anything to this tank. It seems that no fish can go in here again unless I break the whole thing down. I'm not sure why, as the corals and the snails and my brittle sea star are all thriving.

Someone suggested that I possibly didn't acclimate the Molly long enough, as they should be acclimated overnight? The Molly was very happy when I was putting it in the saltwater tank, it didn't seem distressed at all and I watched it for about an hour because it is in a room where I can sit and watch it.

Anyone have any suggestions? It's really hard to try to put a $50-100 fish in the tank just to test it out. My only other option is to find a place to stick the corals while I break down the tank again. Possibly bleach it out, and I'm not sure what to do with the filter. It has a Fluval 307 canister along with the reverse flow under gravel. If I redo the tank I will be removing the undergravel. I'm also unsure whether or not the venom is somehow in the tank and if it adhears the plastics because then I would have to trash my current maker as well.

Anyone dealt with this before or have any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

was the molly already in a salt water tank? If not, then its was probably not acclimated long enough. I'd throw in a "sacrificial" fish. Something strong like a clown pair, chromis, or damsel. Purigen (a really good gfo) will also help.

If that molly was already in a salt enviorment, then it honestly might have been coincidene. Doing frequent water changes and using GFO's should have removed a lot of the poision. If another fish dies than maybe breaking down the tank wouldnt be a bad idea. Make sure the water tests fine before adding another fish. I hope it goes well!

 

[Boundava]

Yeah I forgot to mention that, I did multiple testing but the whole time the water parameters were fine.
No the Molly was a freshy, I thought a 2-hour slow drip acclimation would be enough but I guess not.

 

[Boundava]

BTW some photos of the tank. It's just getting over a crazy diatom and algae issue.

 

[AmazingYocool]

yea that natural light is gonna make the algae go wild lol

and as for mollys, people from my experience 1-2 days with an airstone and drip acclimator.

 

[Boundava]

In my experience the corals really like the natural light. Fortunately the macro algae has kicked in and like I said before the cyano and the algae issue I had seems to be getting under control.
The Petco near me has a saltwater section so I may see if there's something inexpensive to test the tank out with. Like I said I've got a leaf fish and I got to get him some fresh ghost shrimp for the week so I'll be in the store anyway.

 

[Boundava]

So I went to Petco to grab some ghost shrimp for my leaf fish. While I was there I noticed that they had molly for about $5 and then I'd have to buy an air stone which was about $4, or they had damselfish for $9.99. I don't want to second guess the Molly death on water issues or acclimation issues, so I just got a damselfish.
I also grabbed a net breeder so I can watch the fish. So many times the other fish just die and disappear overnight..so I put the damsel fish in the net breeder and s/he is currently floating around in the tank. I put her/him in about 5:30 and s/he is looking fine right now. I was going to stay up until midnight but I can't so I'm going to hope that s/he will be fine tomorrow morning. That's not to say that I may wake up at like three or four am just to double-check.

So from the photos you should be able to tell it's just scooting around it's little enclosure. Sorry for the darkness, I shut the lights off at 8:00 and I took the photos a little after 11:00 pm.

BTW water parameters are fine.

 

[Boundava]

Yay, so I don't know what has changed in the tank or if there was ever really an issue, but the damsel is still alive and actively swimming around it's little net breeder.

I had forgotten to mention that at the end of September I had purchased a goby for the tank, thinking that enough time had passed since the July incidents. Unfortunately the goby passed overnight. I assume that that was because there was still an issue in the tank, not because there might have been some issues with the fish in the first place. I decided to wait another 2 weeks and then try the molly, but the Molly passed as well. I now understand that it's because my acclimation for the molly wasn't long enough.

I'm really happy to know that I can put some fish in this tank again and not have to strip it down and bleach the whole thing. As well as the nightmare of getting more live rocks, substrate, filter media, possibly the current makers...which is really more money than I can spend right now.

The damsel is still in the little net breeder, it's swimming around a lot though so I probably will go ahead and let it out even though I'm hesitant to.

Thank you for your suggestions. I am still planning on breaking down the tank enough to remove the undergravel filter as it's become more of a hinder than a benefit. The reverse flow pumps are awfully loud and occasionally a sale will get stuck in there and it will rattle. It also seems to just be a breeding around for bristle worms too. At least I don't have to toss anything other than the undergravel filter. I can still keep my rocks and my substrate, although I won't need as much substrate as I currently have.

Thanks again for your feedback and help.

 

[Boundava]

Happy to say the Damsel (named Bandito) is doing well in the tank. Swimming freely, well it found a cave it likes and swims around it, lol.

 

[Boundava]

So its been a little since I added the damsel to the tank. Once I let it out it found a little area between the live rocks and hid there for 2 days, on the 3rd day it was gone. Keeping hopes up it was sill alive, I repeatedly checked the tank that day and the next-nothing. The day after I looked to see if I could find a body. I did find a live body but s/he wasn't very active, just sitting on the sand swaying back and forth. Wasn't too hard to catch it and move it over to the 13.5 with my leaf fish. Leaf fish was very interested at first until I distracted him with some ghost shrimp. The damsel pretty much stayed in one spot that day, I was hoping it was going to recover from whatever stress it was dealing with, but it was dead the next day.

Not sure if it was just poor stock, the ongoing (real or fictional) issue with the 38 or my leaf fish that decided to try the damsel out during the night, but I am going to be breaking down the 38.

Plan is to move the corals over to the 13.5. I do have some mushrooms attached to two live rocks, which I am planning on placing into a tub of saltwater with a current maker and heater for the day or two before I try to squeeze it into the 13.5 too. The other live rocks will be trashed as I can't say if they are contaminated.

The tank currently has a reverse flow under gravel filter which I will be removing and not replacing. It also has a Fluval 307 cannister filter which I am hoping will be ok with the new filter media once I beached it out.

I have purchased new filter media for the filter, as well as new hoses as they are almost impossible to clean.

Due to the under gravel filter I have a significant amount of sand in the tank. This is problematic for 2 reasons; 1) I have a significant amount of snails as part of my cleanup crew that I will have to sift out, 2) I have an absurd amount of bristle worms in this tank to try and sift out. I did this once before to try an remove as many bristle worms when I incorporated the sand from my 20L for the 38 build, however that was a LOT less sand and I was able to do it using a plastic container and pull out worms as seen. This time I think I need a fine colander that will sift out larger worms/snails. I will be watching for any escapees while sifting through.

Once the substrate has been removed, and the under gravel is out I will drain the tanks as much as I can and refill with tap water and bleach, letting the system filter through for an hour or so before draining the tank again, adding a large dose of safe and processing for a day. Depending on any lingering chlorine smells I may rinse and repeat.

I have a bag of dry CaribSea seaflor special grade sand coming in. 40lbs should give me 1"-1.5" substrate and I will also add a container of Turbo Start 900 from Frits Aquatics to help the cycle. Fortunately I have a LFS that has it in stock for a good price. I have used this before with fresh and saltwater with good results.

Ultimately the 13.5 will be broken down and incorporated into the 38. The leaf fish will limit stocking of the tank a little, but I am not planning on placing much other than another Damsel, a wrasse and/or maybe a blenny. Would love a goby or two but am sure that Chestnut (the leaf fish) will think its a snack. The 38 will be running for about a month before the 13.5 is broken down, although the live rock will be going back in as soon as I can, and I may purchase another live rock from Beyond the Reef as they have rocks that are seeded with fun critters that eventually make it into the sand. They are $11.99/lb but the $2 more/lb for a seeded (with pods and critters) live rock is worth it to me.

Obviously this is going to be a lot of work and a bit overwhelming at time, still have to tweak some of the timing as I don't want to loose cleanup crew or corals due to my ignorance and poor planning.

Hoping to tackle the breakdown of the 38 this weekend. I spent some time today cleaning up the 13.5, moving some small rocks and the two bubble coral I have in there to make room for the coral in the 38 and possibly putting the 2 live rocks with mushrooms in this weekend. Have to find the rock that my brittle sea star decided to make its home and soak/move that as well. Funny how the inverts have no issues with the tank, but I don't want an invert/coral only tank, much as I love my corals.

My brain hurts just thinking about this, sorry for the long rant.

 

[Boundava]

So it's been a while since I updated on the tank shenanigans with the 38 gallon.

After doing a 90% water change down to the substrate I refilled it completely with new salt water, ran it for a month and tried a (what I assume to have been well acclimated) molly as a guinea pig to see if there are any more issues with the tank being able to actually keep fish. The Molly didn't make it to the next day. That could have been because I did too fast of an acclimation and it wasn't ready to go in the saltwater or because of any residue in the tank.
Another 3 weeks I added a damsel fish which lasted longer, about 5 days, but ultimately died as well.

Because I'd like to keep more than snails and corals in the sink I am going to be tearing it down completely, removing the substrate the filter the live rocks everything.
I will then refill the tank with fresh water and some bleach and allow it to run for a day or so in the hopes of cleaning the filter out as well and then do a 100% water change add a bunch of safe to the water and allow that to run for a couple days before I do a 100% water change again and also I had a bunch of safe to the water and run it for another couple days.

Once I'm sure that I have worked out all the bleach in the system then I will go ahead and clean the tank and hopefully reset it.

I have moved all my corals and two of my live rocks that have mushroom corals on it into my 13 gallon. I will not be keeping any of the other live rocks but replacing them with a mixture of live and regular rocks. I also have a reverse flow under gravel filter that I will not be replacing. I purchased new hoses and new filter media for the Fluval 307 that I have set up on the tank. Also hoping that the little bit of bleach in the water will help decontaminate my current makers as I'm not sure how much plastic has absorbed any of the scorpion fishes toxins. I've never had a saltwater fish tank that had a scorpion fish dying it so I'm not sure what the issue could be but I'm trying to cover all my bases.

It's a bit overwhelming but my plan of attack is:
Remove the remainder of live rocks and drain the tank as much as I can.
Remove the substrate going through it to pull out any snails that I can find and staying away from the bristle worms.
Pull out the undergravel filter and clean the bottom of the tank as best I can.
Remove all the media from the filter and empty it of all salt water.
Make a dilution of bleach water and refill the tank, leaving the current makers in the tank to aid in water movement as well as possibly cleaning any toxins or residues from the current makers themselves.
An hour or two later try to remove as much of the bleach water as I can, refilling the tank more fresh water and a bunch of Safe. Let the tank run for a few hours at least.
Rinse and repeat, but let the tank run for a day to ensure that there are no bleach residues in the tank.
Empty the tank and clean the glass of any algae and other residues.
Clean out the filter, and redo the tubing system with the new tubes that I purchased.
Rinse out 40 lb of dry sand (FUN).
Reset up the tank with the sand, and set up the filter with the new tubes and filter media.
At the new live rocks and other rocks and add a container of the turbo start bacteria starter.
I think I'm going to leave the tank to run for a day or so before I introduce the corals back into the tank.
It's a bit overwhelming, and I got to purchase a couple things before I am able to actually set it up like the live and other rocks and the turbo start.

Anyone have any suggestions on the bleach ratio for 38 gallon? Not sure what kind of concentration I would need that would be safe running through the filter and going through the current makers.

 

[Boundava]

So after a lot of work the tank is up and about 95% done. I have to move the corals back and since some mushrooms are on live rocks there is that bonus. I also need to add the bacterial boost and get some copepods for the tank. Oh and the snails, at least the nassarius and some of the nerites need to be moved back in too, as well as my big trochus snail too. Tank will be running for at least a month before any fish or other inverts go in.

My new rock creature feature .

Close up

Tank after I filled it

About 2 hours later

t's got a bit to go till it clears up. That's the downside to using the dry sand, it's super dusty. I split the 40 lbs between 3 five gallon buckets and rinsed them out over a dozen times. Water went from looking like taupe milk to slightly cloudy. Would have rinsed a little more but it started raining on me. I did put some bonded filter media to help clarify the water. Unfortunately I don't have polyfill anymore, it works the best.

Filter has new foam and biomedia as well as new tubing, except for the tubing that runs from the UV to the filter.

 

[Boundava]

So it's been a really ugly tank few months. Had horrible algae (green and a weird tufted hair algae) all over the glass. Added some more snails but after a month of nothing I just pulled and scrapped it off the glass. Then came the diatoms... fortunately my macro algae came back and currently everything is clear.

Still no fish in the tank. I have expanded my love for soft coral, adding a couple more mushrooms. A friend broke down his tank and gave us his flower anemone which has some pulsing zinnia, the anemone has tripled in size as I feed all my corals directly every other day.
My acans have also grown with the direct feedings and my one ricordea split into 3! My other ricordea and my hairy mushroom have also tripped in size. I also acquired a blue and purple mushroom which have been doing well.
Sorry for the novella....lol.

I also added a makeshift HOB refugium using a clear filter that has a skimmer built-in. This was for the diatoms floating on the surface but now holds my macro clippings as it has firmly established itself in the tank and needs a trim regularly.

So now to the great news; Petco has cheap saltwater fish. So not to spend a bunch of $$$ on a fish that may die (see above posts as to why) we got a $9.99 mixed damsel...lucked out to get a 4 lined one amongst a group of 3 lined. She is currently slightly smaller than a quarter and we can safely say that it being her third morning still swimming that I have successfully cleared the tank of whatever it was that was killing the fish! Looking forward to adding some additional fish in the future. Would like some goby and maybe a bleni, if they play nice. Some say yes, others disagree.

Say hello to Dote (pronounce doot, as she doots around the tank :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:)

Here are some of my corals:
Discoma
The blue one to the lower right

Red Discoma, have 4 of them in the tank.

Purple Discoma, bought it as it was splitting

Rhodactis
Hairy mushroom

Bullseye (I believe), it just split from 1 to 3!

Ricordea
I believe most are Florida, but I may have a Yuma as well.

 

[Boundava]

My other corals and anemone
Gorgonian

Zoas

Acans

Flower anemone and pulsing zinnia (pink mass to the right)

 

[Boundava]

So I went to Beyond the Reef in Schaumburg and picked up 3 nerite snails for the 13.5 with my leaf fish Chestnut. While I was there I saw a red cap and Hector goby in the same tank and decided to get them. They also had some flower anemones at a great price so I grabbed one. I have been wanting to add another one or two of them to the 38.
Since I was in the area and the fish/coral were safe in a small Styrofoam box, I stopped at Aquarium Adventure just to see what's going on with the place. They had a steroid sale going on with various discounts on different things like 25% off their saltwater fish freshwater fish 50% off their plants 25% off frozen foods buy one get one their own brand foods.
So I decided to get some spirulina brine shrimp there, as well as a bag of fuzzy mice for my Kenyan sand boa. I also saw a really nice coraline rock for my 13.5 gallon tank. I have been wanting to redo the 13 1/2 gallon a little bit and so I took advantage of everything when I got home and I put that rock in there. I cleaned out my 38 gallon with some more macro algae which I moved to the 13.5 and I also moved the zoa coral into the tank as well.

So here's the rearranged 13.5 with Chestnut.

Here's the new flower anemone

Hector goby

The tiny red cap goby

So currently the tank has the 4 line Damselfish, the red cap goby and the Hector goby.
I would love to add a couple more fish, anyone have suggestions?