Programming backup Return pump

[Danny42]

Hi All

I have a flow sensor on my main return pump and also have a back up pump, both are on separate return lines and separate sockets on the plug board. I'm running a P4

Is it possible to have the backup come on if the main pump dies, outside of feed and maintenance modes.

Cheers
Danny

 

[siggy]

this is a current relay and there are several shapes, sizes, for any voltages. If one pump fails another would turn on automatically

 

[Danny42]

Cheers Siggy, is it not possible to do this through the P4

 

[siggy]

Please excuse my ignorance, P4 is the GHL system? does it have a breakout box or complementary I/O , then it should work.

 

[Danny42]

yes, I have the profilux 4 ultimate set.

Cant see anything i can use in programmable logic to use, there's no flow sensor or level senor input listed, which I presume I'd need

 

[Gaël]

yes, no programmable logic with 1-10v.
One thing that can be done is to connect the two pumps on the same 1-10v output and install a flow sensor on global output. In profilux set "Constant Flow" to the 1-10v output with the level port of the flow sensor.
The pumps will run at low speed in normal state
If a pump fail, the other will increase his flowrate to compense.

Gael

 

[Danny42]

cheers Gael, main pump is Vectra L1 and backup is a standard DC pump so not sure if that would work.

what i need is to be able to use the alarm from the flow sensor to start the other pump, not sure why the flow sensor output isn't available in programmable logic

 

[siggy]

Cheers Danny the flow sensor would be considered an Input to a control system, also I purchased a flow meter for my return, to see a loss of return ( pump or leak ) that would monitor both of yours, then use the power strip to turn motors on or off. good luck and let me know how you figure this out. I myself am new to tank controllers, but have a lot of machine control ex....

 

[Support@GHLUSA]

cheers Gael, main pump is Vectra L1 and backup is a standard DC pump so not sure if that would work.

what i need is to be able to use the alarm from the flow sensor to start the other pump, not sure why the flow sensor output isn't available in programmable logic

Essentially it would work, as your vertex isn't controllable from external control (0-10v)
You would set your vertex to where you want the flow to be, then set the flow meter to constant flow, just below that... the flow meter will keep dropping the 0-10v lower and lower until it's 0v, since the flow meter will always be reading above your set flow rate ... until your main pump dies/turns off.

IMO, you're adding undue complexity. Personally I'd just keep your return pump running, only one connected and keep your alternative as a spare, for when the Vectra dies or requires maintenance. you're going to be adding plumbing pieces, which both increase clutter and friction loss, plus additional check valves to prevent water from exiting out of the other pump.

 

[Danny42]

Cheers Marco, I'm already plumbed and have the backup pump installed ;(

I'm away quite a bit and don't fancy having to talk the other half into playing with pumps.

I understand what you're saying above but due to my lack of knowledge can't seem to implement it.

Is there any chance of a step by step guide please

 

[Support@GHLUSA]

Understand - have alook at the reference example thread stickied up top in the forum.

Here is little write up on Return Pump control
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/howto-0-10v-control-return-pump.274565/

 

[Danny42]

Hi Marco

Thanks for the info, I'll have a read through it tonight

Cheers
Danny

 

[Danny42]

Hi Marco

Is this what you mean.

Set main pump output, lets 2600lph
Set both pumps to the same Stream Group
Set the flow level sensor to constant flow in 1-10v input
Set the flow nominal value in flow-sensor, lets say 2500lph

Its after 10pm in Ireland, I'm only new to the hobby but i've learnt already to change things late in the evening

Cheers
Danny

 

[Support@GHLUSA]

Well you cannot control the Vectra by ProfiLux. So set that to your desired flow, on the vectra controller.
See what it’s reading on the GHL Flow Sensor/Meter.
If it’s reading 2600gph, the go follow as you wrote up below. That should drive your 0-10v channel down to 0v and turn that controlled pump to off.... now you may want to drop it lower, maybe 2400 or even 2300... just to buy a little more safety from having both pumps on concurrently just because the vectra looses a little steam.


Be interested to see how you have this plumbed, mind posting a picture?

 

[Danny42]

Cheers Marco, I'll get a pic up in the next few days

And I'll let you know how the programming goes

 

[Danny42]

Hi Marco
tried setting up the back pump and nothings happening, not sure if I'm missing something.

this is how its setup
Switch channels and outlets - return pump - S4, backup pump - S5

Stream Group 2 - pumps 2 and 3, mode permanent (pump 1 is my reactor pump)

Flow Sensor 2 - actual flow 2800, nominal flow 2300, connected at level sensor 3

1-10v interface - L1 constant flow 3 tried with 2 as well (not sure if this number relates to the flow or level sensor)

with the above nothing happens when the flow drops below 2300

Any ideas??
Cheers
Danny